Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[SpoonyViking]

Siegfried had Gráni, he should qualify as Rider, I imagine.

[Nuclear]

Do valkyries have belly buttons?

[34]

Do valkyries have belly buttons?

yes

[Nuclear]

azasu

[Iceblade44]

Siegfried had Gráni, he should qualify as Rider, I imagine.

No it's Sigurd that had Grani, Siegfried never had such a fancy horse. He has instead the cloak of invisibility, tarnkappe

[Deathhappens]

yes

What a day, what a day.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

When it's said Excalibur is a sword of the Planet, does that mostly refer to Gaia or does Alaya have any connection as well?

[mewarmo990]

Alaya didn't exist when Excalibur was made

[Urameshi Yūsuke]

When did alaya come into existence? And how? Because of the end of the age of gods? Humans spread across and established themselves as top of food chain?

[Riku Noctis]

Alaya didn't exist when Excalibur was made

Assuming the prayer to protect mankind was born the moment humans were born, and that also being the moment where the planet noticed something strange in them, Extella did said there was civilization when our giant white alien came, so it's possible Alaya did exist at that point. I mean, I think there was at least a caveman seiba around when she came, and the objective of Altera was killing/absorbing civilizations in the first place, so it would be weird if there were no civilizations to absorb. Sure, they may not have had internet in those days, but probably there were some caveman humans living in a mongrel society or something (besides the shenanigans from Gil's ancestors).

It's also possible that Velber 02 was the actual reason why mankind unconsciously created Alaya, and thinking about it, this sounds really cool and makes more sense, as Velber 02 managed to at least destroy 80% of the surface along with some OP gods that were in the way before caveman seiba stopped her, which looks like a really slow response time if we compare it to what the Counter Force usually does and how it does it. So it should also be possible that Velber 02 is the reason why mankind has been a douchebag with Earth-chan since a long time ago.


Kinoko should at least mention one date, even if somewhat vague; be it the date humans were recognized as weird childs of the planet, or the date when they actually created their own aspect of the Counter Force. Add to that the date where Crimson Moon and Zel fought over some videogame they were playing.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Assuming the prayer to protect mankind was born the moment humans were born, and that also being the moment where the planet noticed something strange in them, Extella did said there was civilization when our giant white alien came, so it's possible Alaya did exist at that point. I mean, I think there was at least a caveman seiba around when she came, and the objective of Altera was killing/absorbing civilizations in the first place, so it would be weird if there were no civilizations to absorb. Sure, they may not have had internet in those days, but probably there were some caveman humans living in a mongrel society or something (besides the shenanigans from Gil's ancestors).

It's also possible that Velber 02 was the actual reason why mankind unconsciously created Alaya, and thinking about it, this sounds really cool and makes more sense, as Velber 02 managed to at least destroy 80% of the surface along with some OP gods that were in the way before caveman seiba stopped her, which looks like a really slow response time if we compare it to what the Counter Force usually does and how it does it. So it should also be possible that Velber 02 is the reason why mankind has been a douchebag with Earth-chan since a long time ago.


Kinoko should at least mention one date, even if somewhat vague; be it the date humans were recognized as weird childs of the planet, or the date when they actually created their own aspect of the Counter Force. Add to that the date where Crimson Moon and Zel fought over some videogame they were playing.

That would actually be a really cool idea, but one thing. I thought the Counter Force was entirely Alaya's thing, and Gaia had something separate. Also, if Gaia and Alaya were in direct opposition to each other and considered each other threats, which side would back Excalibur?

[Iceblade44]

Counter Force isn’t just Alaya, it’s Alaya and Gaia both. We don’t normally see Gaia use it that much since normally it’s a human problem that we keep trying to screw ourselves over

[SpoonyViking]

Is there a general rule for how ESP interacts with magic or magical things, or is it a case-by-case basis?

No it's Sigurd that had Grani, Siegfried never had such a fancy horse.

Huh, so it is. My bad.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Counter Force isn’t just Alaya, it’s Alaya and Gaia both. We don’t normally see Gaia use it that much since normally it’s a human problem that we keep trying to screw ourselves over

So could Gaia hypothetically summon human-based Counter Guardians like EMIYA, or is she restricted to Phantasmal Beasts, Elementals, and the likes?

[Iceblade44]

No, Counter Guardians are Guardians of Alaya. If Gaia was mad with you it would sick a dragon on you or something

[AmADo VII]

No, Counter Guardians are Guardians of Alaya. If Gaia was mad with you it would sick a dragon on you or something

or a certain animal that running at FGO loading screen.

[Riku Noctis]

That would actually be a really cool idea, but one thing. I thought the Counter Force was entirely Alaya's thing, and Gaia had something separate. Also, if Gaia and Alaya were in direct opposition to each other and considered each other threats, which side would back Excalibur?

Nah. The Counter Force has 2 aspects; Gaia and Alaya. Gaia uses Shinso, dragons, phenomena and the like. Alaya makes contracts with ginger idiots for their services.


The actual answer to what I mentioned would be "we don't really know", which is why I mentioned that we need at least one date revealed, be it the date where the weird mankind was born, the date where mankind created it's own aspect of the counter force, or at the very least the date where Crimson Moon came before Earth-chan and offered his services to protect her against her douchebag and recently born children (the fight with Zel could be used, too, but as a mostly vague point of reference for anything that happened before it).


If we really take everything into consideration, and we also are nitpicky about it, Alaya, the prayer for mankind, could be very well after Crimson Moon and Zel fought in some worlds. The prayer for the planet, Gaia, should/could have been born at the time Crimson Moon came to make a deal with the planet as "it didn't have a way to protect itself" against the douchebag humans. Which makes a lot of sense if we notice that Kinoko also said that everything was good, but then mankind was born. At least it vaguely suggests that the planet didn't have a defense mechanism because it wasn't needed for anything on the planet. Once again, humans are douchebags and it needs to defend itself from them. This was more or less my take before Extella and the lore reveal there.

But then, we have Excalibur and the recent lore reveals about it. It was made a long time ago, probably even before Crimson Moon (but ignore this part for now). Excalibur, even before Extella, was said to be created by the planet with the wishes of mankind and blah, blah, blah. But now we know that it is actually really old. And apparently, it was used to defeat an enemy that destroys civilizations as a hobby. I'm not saying that the old OP gods didn't have a civilization, as Velber 02 crushed most of them anyway, but the whole "Excalibur made by the planet using the wishes and hopes of mankind", and the whole "80% of the surface destroyed along with any civilization" sounds an awful lot like Alaya to me, and it sounds like the planet made it because it was at that moment that mankind, with apparently less than 20% of it's caveman civilization, needed something to survive, so Excalibur was the answer reached. Of course, the end result would be that mankind obtained it's very own meta defense against threats.


So, this reasoning directly changes technically everything about Crimson Moon and his/her coming, the period where mankind was recognized as a threat by the planet (which happens anyway), and obviously the moment where mankind created it's own aspect of the Counter Force which I mentioned initially. This would mean that there was at least a human civilization at the time Velber 02 came to play. This would also mean that in some worlds Crimson Moon probably never came or even existed, as it would be somewhat of a contradiction if he is the one who offered protection from mankind to the planet (which also makes some sense when we have the Moon Cell being called a "lonely Type-Moon" lol).

Basically, Kinoko needs to reveal more details, especifically, the dates where these events exactly ocurred. We have the one from Velber 02, but we need the juicy bits about the Counter Force, Crimson Moon and the other shenanigans about mankind. Someone needs to break into Notes. and threaten Kinoko saying his games will burn if he doesn't reveal these details in the upcoming remake, which will release around 2099 at this rate. ¬¬

[Leftovers]

Arcueid was born in the 12th century and the castle had been in ruins for 600 years by that point so there's your date for CM vs Zelretch.

- - - Updated - - -

Ortenrosse's age of 4000 years could be used to estimate the date TA were created considering he's called the oldest DAA and CM's first follower but he's a magus turned vampire and not one of the original TA bloodbags so there's no direct correlation apart from the fact that CM was meddling around on the planet at that time.

- - - Updated - - -

Following the Tsuki prologue fable, Gaia's CF for me is not a mechanism that was developed but, to give an example, like the planet acquired tools (the True Ancestors) with which to enforce its will (on humanity). Of course elementals already must have existed so I imagine it's not a matter of superior firepower but had more to do with humanity's special potential. The Caveman Excalibur observation is pretty valid irw the development of Alaya, though.

[AmADo VII]

I wonder if any of Heroic Spirits knows about True Ancestors.

[Iceblade44]

Didn’t Hakuno know about them? Though that was probably because he was in a mega computer with tons of info.

if they was any that knew, it probably be the ones closest to Gaia like Enkidu tho then again Gil seemed to be oblivious to vampires for some reason.