Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Byegod]

Rider Nero has the good boy Sirrush.





Apo Mats.



That said the argument, as always, is that "Gil doesn't have it, but he probably has something that does the same thing because that's how Gil works". The statement in CCC is that Gil's sure he has a spear that does the same stuff/corresponds to VS, but he doesn't know which one it is cause Karna apparently never used it in his legend in Nasuland (don't ask me how he killed Ghatotkacha).

Lemme be blunt, thats blatantly not the intention of the mats and gils statement as otherwise it would have been brought up to rebuke

[eddyak]

It's "possible" for someone like that to exist in theory I guess, but if they did then they'd be outside the bounds of humanity/common sense. An ability like that doesn't seem suitable for "just" an A rank Noble Phantasm, and also clashes with some themes of the setting imo.

B's historically been the broken rank with the heavy-hitting early adopters like God Hand and Gae Bolg, but I think you can argue that C rank has challenged its throne in the modern day. D is still shamefully unrepresented though, justice for D ranks.

Not necessarily- it says complete deathlessness doesn't exist, but some of our heroes already come pretty damn close. Karna's 90% damage reduction armour- Ninety percent- is a B rank. Armour that's completely impenetrable could be an A, you'd have to hit them somewhere the armour doesn't cover, or remove the armour first, or trump it with a weapon that doesn't interact with armour.

Hell, we saw something like that even in Fate- flashback to Saber bashing Gil everywhere she could reach, but wasn't able to get through his armour.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

vasavi shakti being specifically mentioned as ~special and not in GoB~ is a bit dumb though since GoB isn't supposed to have those specific NPs anyway, just their originals
so are we saying there are no beam-spears in GoB? or no anti-divine spears? or specifically just not VS itself or its direct prototype that would counter it?

[eddyak]

I think the point was that it's a god-made spear.

The idea is that Gil has all the original human made things, just not Divine Constructs and so on.

[Inuhanyou]

It would be kind of stupid and headache-inducing, because he'd probably have seen himself ahead of time, and at some point would have realized that's who that guy was and that would have colored his 100% natural suffering experience. Throne existing out of time makes the pendant thing mostly okay.

That said, the only way Emiya's goal of killing himself is possible is if he's actually summoned into that original timeline.

What isnt stupid and headache inducing at this point? That explanation doesnt make much sense to me since it would be even more ridiculous to assume the same events happend up to and beyond rin able to save shirou from lancer, yet assuming archer does not appear despite the same exact conditions existing for archer to be summonedl.

Especially since seeing archer doesnt really matter much to shirous end goal(for fate route its saving arturias heart, not aRcher). He can be told to his face who archer is but hes still going to attempt the same things and perhaps go through the same experiences. Its what around all that stuff which mattter to his decisions later on in life.

[Mattias]

vasavi shakti being specifically mentioned as ~special and not in GoB~ is a bit dumb though since GoB isn't supposed to have those specific NPs anyway, just their originals

I always thought that because he owned the originals, he also claimed ownership of the derivatives as well. Like how he got Caladbolg 2 from the GoB.

[Holiday]

Because Heracles can take damage from attacks ranked above B.

This would make sense to me if that was the only thing God Hand did. I'm fine with eg. Armor of Fafnir being B-rank. But the other stuff it does on top of that (12 x revive + adaptive resistance), and the way all the different components synergize with each other, makes the overall performance of the NP considerably better than that.

How did we get to the point of B being a "lower rank"

Well, E-rank and D-rank NPs are super rare compared to the other ranks. In Stay Night, Hollow and Zero combined, the two lowest ranking NPs are Verg Avesta and Breaker Gorgon (D and C- respectively), and everything else is C-rank or better. So even though in theory the scale goes all the way down to E, and B is the second best rank out of five, in actuality it feels more like C-rank is for weak NPs, A-rank is for strong ones, and B-rank is for mediocre ones.

Also, I can't find it right now, but I'm pretty sure Nasu said in one of the Comptiq Q&As that an "average Noble Phantasm" would be B-rank.

[Byegod]

I always thought that because he owned the originals, he also claimed ownership of the derivatives as well. Like how he got Caladbolg 2 from the GoB.

Wasnt that only in DEEN?

I mean the whole human only thing still doesnt make much sense, even if we presume gil manually collected a bunch of divine stuff which is fine

But he also has things made after his time BY nonhumans like gram which was made by a dwarf.

[CO9p5JMGv!p9]

I think the point was that it's a god-made spear.

The idea is that Gil has all the original human made things, just not Divine Constructs and so on.

that's not true though, there is no such limitation

[fumei]

There IS such a limitation, it's just that "made by gods/supernatural beings/the planet" and "being a divine construct" are not the same thing.

[the god of world-0]

Archer exists outside time. Shirou doesn't.

[Deathhappens]

Don't think about it too hard.

[SteelBeowulf]

Exactly, who owns "Fate Grand Order"? Type-Moon or Sony?

[Byegod]

This would make sense to me if that was the only thing God Hand did. I'm fine with eg. Armor of Fafnir being B-rank. But the other stuff it does on top of that (12 x revive + adaptive resistance), and the way all the different components synergize with each other, makes the overall performance of the NP considerably better than that.



Well, E-rank and D-rank NPs are super rare compared to the other ranks. In Stay Night, Hollow and Zero combined, the two lowest ranking NPs are Verg Avesta and Breaker Gorgon (D and C- respectively), and everything else is C-rank or better. So even though in theory the scale goes all the way down to E, and B is the second best rank out of five, in actuality it feels more like C-rank is for weak NPs, A-rank is for strong ones, and B-rank is for mediocre ones.

Also, I can't find it right now, but I'm pretty sure Nasu said in one of the Comptiq Q&As that an "average Noble Phantasm" would be B-rank.

I've counted Np ranks, if you remove all scaling NP ranks you theres like... 6 or 8 E rank nps in total.

Thats it, and two are from liz, two from prisma if memory serves, one is arcuieds if memory serves

[Deathhappens]

Exactly, who owns "Fate Grand Order"? Type-Moon or Sony?

Type-Moon owns the intellectual property, Delightworks owns the code, Sony (via Aniplex) as the publisher owns some or all of the distribution rights.

There are probably more complicated arrangements in place but that should be the gist of it.

[SeiKeo]

Exactly, who owns "Fate Grand Order"? Type-Moon or Sony?

It's probably set up like an anime where FGO PROJECT is a company which is in turn owned by Notes Ltd, Sony, Aniplex, in varying shares.

[Blastedspider]

Some NPs cannot really be adequately measured in numbers. God Hand is one of them.

[Zork Knight]

The numbers are 11 and B.

[Byegod]

My test notes say C and 3 though

[LeadDemon]

Karna's 90% damage reduction armour- Ninety percent- is a B rank. Armour that's completely impenetrable could be an A, you'd have to hit them somewhere the armour doesn't cover, or remove the armour first, or trump it with a weapon that doesn't interact with armour.

Karna's armor is A though?

I think I was misunderstanding what you were saying regardless. I was reading it as you specifically talking about a burden of the body that is "can't get hurt by anything no matter what" cause of your "Baldr sans mistletoe" example, like no loopholes, no ways around it, no bullshit. If someone like that existed, they would be completely deathless, but if I misunderstood what you were saying then that's a moot point.

If it's just "they have an armament that's absolute", then I'd think the most direct example we have of "a defense that's completely impenetrable" would just be, like, good old Avalon, though you can argue that's more like being a dodge tank than having a high defense. Something that absolute doesn't strike me as "just" A, especially since we do have an A rank super defensive conceptual "block all your stuff" NP in Karna's armor, as you brought up, and it's not at 100%.