But it's not about just survival, it's about growth, and growth is survival to Alaya.
But it's not about just survival, it's about growth, and growth is survival to Alaya.
Originally Posted by Deathhappens
if only someone had told Zepia about timeline pruning! would have been egg on his face for sure
かん汗ぎゅう牛じゅう充とう棟
Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
Source: 柳宗元「其為書，處則充棟宇，出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty
Why can't Extella get its own collab if it's so tough, huh?
Is perpetual survival worth it if it's not a 100% run
The objective feels like it clearly isn't just keeping humans alive, but instead ensuring they realize their potential and conquer the stars and beyond, maybe, IDK
"The universe will not expend energy to create an ending where it already knows what will happen. This is because the universe continues to expand towards a “future” that no one has seen before, that not even a life form of a higher order could predict."
Ah, so this "Golden end" is the future that can't be predicted Zepia hoped for?
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
Precisely how much of this is in the source material and how much is just fan inferences?
O walls, you have held up so much tedious graffiti that I am amazed you have not already collapsed in ruin.
So I can safely assume that pruned world term has a lot flaw in logic, and if TM want to dive deeper in this topic, maybe some retcon'd happened. ATM, it's another reason for FGO and crazy mutilverse exist.
My thought is why the heck does Alaya allowed to decide which world got the short end of the stick, did Gaia have no say in this matter. And also, if human collective consciousness capable of this much, why gods that way more powerful than us don't have same system as Alaya that prune any world in which they die out, strangely convinent for us human, huh.
In my imagination, pick a frozen wasteland like lostbelt 1/2, in which, there are small species that is smart enough to considered sentient and currently flourish in this world, and dozen of them make a collective consciousness named Bob. How'd Alaya deal with this then? Would it be like "Sorry Bob, thing aint so hot for me so I guess I'm going to dip out and nuke this world out of existence, no hard feeling, bro " or like "Ok Bob, me and Gaia is going out, you are in charge now, use the frozen corpses as food for your specie, don't answer phone call from strange alien gods, and remember to quantum time lock one in while, mkay". LOL
Last edited by Wuff_Wuff; September 29th, 2020 at 08:07 AM.
IIRC Alaya is entirely unique to humanity. It's one of the reasons Gaia is so freaked out by us.
Last edited by Holiday; September 29th, 2020 at 08:14 AM.
The idea of the subconscious of mankind handling a multiverse was flawed from the start, really why should the subconscious of an irrelevant species on a irrelevant planet handle a multiverse.
But it seems like Nasu has been trying to say that human are super special for a while.
Humans are special. We don't exactly know why, but they are.
I remember being mentioned somewhere that Goetia burned human order specifically because it produced much more energy than burning the actual entire planet.
here is a list of my servant sheets(new and improved format for my servant sheets)
Come explore the White Library, and reach the bottom of this Abyss
Fate / White Memoria
.
Plot twist, what truly is almighty for the multiverse purposes is the humanity beyond the Fourth Wall, which in a way is true.
Reaching and breaching the Root only means you'll get a full view of Type-Moon's offices where Takeuchi is drawing another Saberface.
I'm reminded of Moorcock's stories, particularly the Elric ones, in which an excess of Law was just as bad for the world as an excess of Chaos.
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I'm not particularly knowledgeable about Buddhism, nor do I know how much of its philosophical-ideological underpinnings can be found in Nasu's works, but a stray thought I had was that maybe utopias being pruned works as a metaphor for how reincarnating as a deva is ultimately an obstacle because you lead such a happy life you lose sight of how not just happiness, but existence itself is an illusion which imprisons you.
My talks with wiafuhunter and some others gave me the general vibe that nasu doesnt understand buddhism either.
Also if only one ending is allowed isnt that just railroading humanity which is in of itself a form of stagnation
I think Nasu understands Buddhism well enough. But mind you, I’m far from being an expert on it.
About your second point... that wouldn’t necessarily be the case if that one ending is ultimate liberation and boundlessness. If that happened, it would unquestionably exceed all other possibilities and make stagnation impossible.
When has mizu said anything like that?
Not really, no.Also if only one ending is allowed isnt that just railroading humanity which is in of itself a form of stagnation
rebirth in the deva realm is finite. you're still inside the desire realm. hence why Mara, the demon-lord of the sixth heaven (dairokuten, the highest point of the desire realm) is in there. just chilling. maitreya is also there - in the tusita heaven (no. 4? iirc) - hanging around till he can be reborn in the human realm. it is a pleasant existence, which is a difficulty (but by no means an insurmountable obstacle) as far as buddhist salvation goes, but it does not fit with the notion of 'completeness' nasu seems to be getting at when he describes the criteria for the pruning phenomenon.
as i have said elsewhere, the 'pruning' idea is far closer to a hegelian/kojevian eschatological view of world-history. albeit with the ethical valence flipped. for hegel/kojeve the 'end of history' was - to simplify greatly - a 'good' thing. for hegel less ambiguously so. he had all these ideas borne out of late medieval mysticism [boehme mainly] about humanity being god's self-knowledge perfecting itself through time. kojeve had a kind of more explicitly atheistic variant of this idea in which - to grossly oversimplify - human being = time = history, and therefore the 'end of history' means the 'end of humanity' in the sense that what persists will not be 'human' in any meaningful sense, but rather a kind of 'animal', which is fed and watered and kept content, but has nothing really to do. there is no more 'work' to be done in a world-historical sense.
to consider this outcome undesirable is not a novel position. leo strauss explicitly compared it (in the strauss-kojeve correspondence which is in the expanded edition of strauss' On Tyranny) to the description of the 'last man' in Nietzsche's zarathustra. that nasu presents the 'completion' of world-history, either in extinction or 'perfection', as a 'bad' thing, or at minimum undesirable, is indicative of a kind of basic irrationalism - an elevation of the irrational in man, the 'Will' - along the same lines as nietzsche's. you could compare it also to dostoevsky's Underground Man re: the discourse on the Crystal Palace, where he talks about how even if you made humanity perfectly happy and content, they'd still arbitrarily choose to fuck things up out of sheer caprice.
かん汗ぎゅう牛じゅう充とう棟
Expresses the exceeding size of one's library.
Books are extremely many, loaded on an oxcart the ox will sweat.
At home piled to the ridgepole of the house, from this meaning.
Read out as 「Ushi ni ase shi, munagi ni mitsu.」
Source: 柳宗元「其為書，處則充棟宇，出則汗牛馬。」— Tang Dynasty
I'm not sure if Nasu sees timeline-pruning as a 'bad' thing, or even undesirable per-se. It's just that, an ending, and all stories will arguably come to an end some day. The problem isn't humanity reaching "completion" and being pruned (iirc Justeaze in Apocrypha outright said Amakusa's plan of giving Third Magic to everyone- which would result in stagnation- is something humanity would come up with on their own someday) it's that process being shortcircuited so the ending happens without any of the growth that made it meaningful in the first place. In which case it'd be like skipping to the end of a book without reading all the character-development in between.
What is FATE system?
It's Chaldea's Servant summoning system. It was invented by Marisbilly himself by reverse engineering what he saw in the Fuyuki Holy Grail War, improving it and making it more stable.
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