Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[fumei]

Ugh, forget I even asked.

It's based on this: https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/i...y-numbers.html

But in Nasuverse, imaginary numbers more specifically refers to either "that which exist, but does not manifest" or "that which cannot manifest, but does so anyway" (paraphrased here so might be slightly off).
It's what makes up the Far Side of the moon, it's what Sakura's magic is all about, and it's what Chaldea dives into during the LB chapters to get around the storm walls. More specifically, Chaldea enters Imaginary Number Space (PLEASE don't call this void space I swear to god), which as Comun said is effectively an alternate world, a (bunch of) pocket of space made up of imaginary numbers, wherein time flows differently and there's no native life and everything is in a state of like semi-quantum unobservability and so on.

[Altima of the Gates]

Isn't there life in that space and its just not recorded because its dangerous to traverse?
Basically its like the Astral Plane but some individuals can tap into it. I believe it was mentioned it was used to preserve artifacts originally. But then FGO added other applications, kinda wondering why it would be such a niche subject at the Clock Tower, isn't their mantra that rare equals "lemme get my hand on it immediately"?

[Byegod]

Do we know anything bout how dreams work in nasu? is lucid dreaming a form of magecraft in canon lol

[Comun]

-Everyone's dreams are connected in some level, allowing succubi and incubi to move people from dream to dream (Len allowing Shiki to visit Arcueid's and Ciel's dreams in Kagetsu, Merlin sending Fujimaru to Moriarty's dream in his event). I'd guess that's what enables Alaya to exist.
-Dreams are connected to the imaginary numbers and Lovecraftian gods, but we still don't know exactly how because the event that talks about it started yesterday.

[Byegod]

Interesting, I wonder if lucid dreams would be considered a magecraft or not

[Ratman]

Isn't that basically how Kyrie's psychic ability works?

[Byegod]

Ive totally forgotten tbh, isnt that more astral projection?

Im just curious as dreams have been a thing in nasu for a long while, and also lucid dreaming is known to science.

Maybe its just some kinda weird ability like breathing and walking

[fumei]

Isn't there life in that space and its just not recorded because its dangerous to traverse?
Basically its like the Astral Plane but some individuals can tap into it. I believe it was mentioned it was used to preserve artifacts originally. But then FGO added other applications, kinda wondering why it would be such a niche subject at the Clock Tower, isn't their mantra that rare equals "lemme get my hand on it immediately"?

I guess it depends more about what "pocket" you're in, since for example Tiamat is sealed inside INS, and in the current event there wasn't supposed to be any life in the area. Although, I think it was talking specifically about native life, so could still be right.

[Altima of the Gates]

So basically its a prison for really dangerous stuff, like a Hell of sorts. Its not the first time that it had underworld vibes.
Also hmm, maybe those jokes about Lovecraft stuff and Sakura from that Back Alley Alliance parody actually had some connection if the current event connection fantasy gods and imaginary numbers.
Through jokes, there is wisdom yet again. Or rather, why does Nasu keep such interesting lore hidden behind joke content for so long?

[yokushi]

Since CCC I always understood the Imaginary Numbers as some sort of backyard or dumping site to the real numbers world.

It's basically an unobservable place where all the unneeded/discarded possibilities are there without actually manifesting.

[Altima of the Gates]

Since CCC I always understood the Imaginary Numbers as some sort of backyard or dumping site to the real numbers world.

It's basically an unobservable place where all the unneeded/discarded possibilities are there without actually manifesting.

That makes me think back to some bad ends, particularly Femme Fatale (did Sakura basically make Rin like Rika from Higurashi by pulling a "world" where Tohsaka Rin and Tohsaka Sakura switched places?)and the one where Shirou enters the sbadow and walks for hours inside.
That joke scene in Hollow with the diary and Medusa getting put in time out for that one joke scenario in AATM. They all look positively sinister in hindsight.
And thinking back on it, I think the dive they have when entering IN space in FGO amd the weird grayscale like effect looks like when Sakura was playing pranks on Rin by sucking her in for the Sister Crisis scene in Hollow. So if the ability to mess with time (and reverse casuality if Summer 3's event with the printer isn't just hokey BS). Isn't that some pretty crazy applications?
Making another infinitely expansive world where possibilities merge, where time flows differently, where you can trap even elder beings. Either Nasu has been intentionally underselling people born with this ability or you need monstrous magical energy and infinite time to get all the applications.

[yokushi]

Well the Imaginary Numbers magecraft was always said to be a crazy good talent, it just seems a case of being rare and hard to learn.

[SpoonyViking]

That makes me think back to some bad ends, particularly Femme Fatale (did Sakura basically make Rin like Rika from Higurashi by pulling a "world" where Tohsaka Rin and Tohsaka Sakura switched places?) [...]

Is that what happens in that ending? I think we should take Sakura's words literally: she's "just" subjecting Rin to all the tortures she herself had been put through growing up (so basically, lots and lots of rape).

[Holiday]

Due to her being bonded with Avenger, isn't "make others experience all of her pain and trauma" one of her powers as Dark Sakura? Kinda like Verg Avesta but for her entire lifetime rather than just that battle.

[Laserman]

It's based on this: https://www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/i...y-numbers.html

But in Nasuverse, imaginary numbers more specifically refers to either "that which exist, but does not manifest" or "that which cannot manifest, but does so anyway" (paraphrased here so might be slightly off).
It's what makes up the Far Side of the moon, it's what Sakura's magic is all about, and it's what Chaldea dives into during the LB chapters to get around the storm walls. More specifically, Chaldea enters Imaginary Number Space (PLEASE don't call this void space I swear to god), which as Comun said is effectively an alternate world, a (bunch of) pocket of space made up of imaginary numbers, wherein time flows differently and there's no native life and everything is in a state of like semi-quantum unobservability and so on.

So it's a real world thing and something completely different in the Nasuverse. I always imagined IMS being like the dimension Obito made with his Sharingan, it just seemed similar to me. I mean, void space kind of makes sense from what you described?

[fumei]

So it's a real world thing and something completely different in the Nasuverse. I always imagined IMS being like the dimension Obito made with his Sharingan, it just seemed similar to me. I mean, void space kind of makes sense from what you described?

The "real thing" that was used here is the idea that there exists "imaginary" counterparts to what we call "real". More than that you don't really need to dive into this to get the gist of what INS is.

As for why "void space" is a bad translation:
虚数 (kyosuu) means "imaginary number", as in, it's the very term used in mathematics.
虚数空間 (kyosuu kuukan) then means "imaginary number" + "space".

In other words, the "literal translation" here is exactly what it means. It's a space made up of imaginary numbers. Simple enough and gets the point across.

What I assume FGO NA did here was take the 虚 out of 虚数 for who knows what reason, and just ignored the other kanji. 虚 on its own can mean "void", so then you get "void space", which you have to agree, does not exactly get the point across.
Ignoring how 虚数 doesn't in any sense translate to "void" and how it's completely bonkers to just change a term like that, there's this side bit about how FGO NA completely overuses the term "void" for no practical reason, to the point where it just becomes confusing and convoluted. They already translate 空 to "void" as well, which is the kanji used in the context of you know, Ryougi's 3rd personality and the root (there's another term that got translated as void as well, but I forgot what it was). So now those two terms related to the root, translated as just "void", are now the EXACT SAME WORD as the term for Imaginary Number Space, which has NOTHING to do with the root. So in the end you just have a bunch of unrelated words, that are supposed to be different words entirely, just all (wrongly) translated as the same word because ????

[Rafflesiac]

Can't believe Imaginary-Neesan's swimming around Void Space, hope she shows up this event.

[Comun]

Well the Imaginary Numbers magecraft was always said to be a crazy good talent, it just seems a case of being rare and hard to learn.

Yeah, it was always described as this amazing, we only didn't take it seriously because Tokiomi was the one saying it.

now the EXACT SAME WORD as the term for Imaginary Number Space, which has NOTHING to do with the root. So in the end you just have a bunch of unrelated words, that are supposed to be different words entirely, just all (wrongly) translated as the same word because ????

I wonder which of the two will be plot-resolving pun played into Daybit's name.

[TwilightsCall]

To be fair, they also tell us that Sakura doesn't even have that attribute anymore after the Matous give her a new paint job

[yokushi]

To be fair, they also tell us that Sakura doesn't even have that attribute anymore after the Matous give her a new paint job

She still uses imaginary numbers magecraft so it doesn't seem to be completely gone anyway.