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Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #151561
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Which time?
    Fate and UBW the holes opened by the Lesser Grail are to the Greater Grail that's why mud comes out of them.
    In the case you can fully activate the Greater Grail, have possession of a filled Lesser Grail, and are in one of the summoning locations, you jump through through the first hole which sends you to and through the second hole in Ryuudou cavern which leads outside the world.
    Think of this first hole as a USB cable.



    In HF, Gil counts for more than 1 Servant.

    Is this first hole connected with the second hole?...I mean...if you jump through the first one you should pass through the second hole immediately...right? like a wormhole...
    Last edited by Jesse1089; November 24th, 2021 at 08:34 PM.

  2. #151562
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Yes, if the 2nd hole has been opened. That is, 7 Servants are sacrificed.
    If only 6 Servants have been sacrificed you only have access to Greater Grail crunching on Servants magical energy not outside of the world mana.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  3. #151563
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    Yes, if the 2nd hole has been opened. That is, 7 Servants are sacrificed.
    If only 6 Servants have been sacrificed you only have access to Greater Grail crunching on Servants magical energy not outside of the world mana.
    Ok... then while the greater grail reproduces the third magic by absorbing the mana from the outside world ... the dress of heaven is used to manipulate and cast the third magic onto everyone ... right?

  4. #151564
    Dress of Heaven is just a shard of the Third, just like how the Jeweled Sword of Zelretch is a shard of the Second.

    You do not need the Dress of Heaven to perform the Third. Ilya needed it because the Einzberns do not have the Third at this time.

  5. #151565
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse1089 View Post
    Ok... then while the greater grail reproduces the third magic by absorbing the mana from the outside world ... the dress of heaven is used to manipulate and cast the third magic onto everyone ... right?
    The dress has two main functions:
    The first is as mentioned a fragment of the Third. It can materialize a soul for little while.
    The second is that it can act as a command prompt run as administrator for the Greater Grail
    A magical artifact passed down by the Einzberns.
    As the heart that governs the Great Holy Grail, it is imbued with magecraft that can materialize the soul for just a few seconds.
    アインツベルンに伝わる魔術兵装。
    大聖杯を制御する心臓にして、魂を数秒だけ物質化させる魔術を帯びている。
     
    "Are you saying you'll sacrifice yourself, Ilyasviel?"
    "Yes. That's my role.
    But the formal dress isn't here. If you want to open the gate as the successor, we have to go to my castle to get it."
    「じゃあ、自ら生贄になると言うの、イリヤスフィール」
    「ええ。それがわたしの役割だもの。
     けど正装はここにはないの。サクラが後継者として門を開きたいんなら、わたしの城まで取りに 行かないと」
    「――――――――」
    https://lparchive.org/Fatestay-night...HF15-04-18.jpg
    "………"
    "Do not be so doubtful. The Holy Grail you desire is that girl. Keeping your name in history and becoming the original. Your wish to be eternal through record will be granted by Einzbern.
    But I need her to keep her original form. Homunculi are outside my expertise. You can let her be until they prepare her formal dress."
    「む? 何処に行くアサシン。
     万が一という事もある。おぬしにはアレからワシを守ってもらわねばならん」
    「……それは構わんが。黒い聖杯ばかりに〈感〉《かま》け、白い聖杯を自由にさせるのはどうか。ようやく手 に入れた正統な聖杯を、なぜあのように遊ばせておく?」
    「おお、その事か。なに、イリヤスフィールは我らに協力的じゃ。もとより聖杯として門を開ける為だけに存在 する娘。その目的が果たされるのなら、と大人しく頷きおったわ」

     
    「………………」
    「そう訝しがるでない。おぬしの求める聖杯はあちらの娘だ。歴史に名を残し、自らが〈本物〉《オリジナル》 になる。記録としての永遠を望むうぬの願いはアインツベルンが叶えてくれよう。
     だが、それにはあの娘に本来の姿になって貰わねばならん。ワシはホムンクルスは管轄外でな。あやつらが正 装を整えるまでは好きにさせておけばよい」
    Zouken needs the Dress of Heaven on Ilya because ideally he doesn't want Sakura opening the gate
    Then what?
    The thing possessing Sakura.
    If what's changing her is a contract with a Servant

    "Zouken kidnapped me, probably because he didn't want to let Sakura open the gate.
    He wanted me to take the role of the Holy Grail, allowing him to take over Sakura's body once she became Angra Manyu's Master."
    Sakura has all the Servants in her while Ilya only had Archer. So for Ilya to open the gate, he needed the manual override and to fix some settings if his plan was to go forward the way he wanted.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  6. #151566
    夜属 Nightkin Arete's Avatar
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    Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, but shouldn't the fact that QSH found a way to get people out of his lostbelt be more significant? Like at the end of his LB, why can't he just load up a bunch of people on the fake shadow border's he's made so that they can get out past the barrier since they admit that that's possible with these ones. Having no choice but to genocide entire worlds is one thing, but we have a choice here. Heck, given that we now know it's possible to get other people out via this way, why can't we just build replicas of the SB in other LB's? It'd certainly be possible in the Greek lostbelt.

    It kinda sounds like the answer to one of the major problems of the arc has been shown to us.

    Also on that note, why is that the people riding QSH's shadow boarders would be able to survive getting past the storm walls when we're told that if we take someone in our storm board it won't work? Was that just a lie?
    Last edited by Arete; November 26th, 2021 at 10:26 AM.

  7. #151567
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors madarra's Avatar
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    Wasnt it that Fantasy Tree based people fizzle out outside their LB and only LB 6 fairies are possible because they aren't Fantasy Tree based anymore... Then again don't, remember if the statement that you can take faeries out isnt from BEFORE we find out 90% of the fairies are quazi-servants to Morgan

  8. #151568
    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    why can't he just load up a bunch of people on the fake shadow border's he's made so that they can get out past the barrier since they admit that that's possible with these ones. Having no choice but to genocide entire worlds is one thing, but we have a choice here.
    If I remember well, they could only do it for the British lostbelt, since it was different from the other ones.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  9. #151569
    夜属 Nightkin Arete's Avatar
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    Yeah but they said it was possible for LB3, at least with the fake-borders.

  10. #151570
    The Wolf King Lobo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Yeah but they said it was possible for LB3, at least with the fake-borders.
    No, QSH was been deceive by Hinako into believing the LBs theory was fake, he believed that he was getting cut from the rest of his empire by the storm cloud so he copy the shadow border's ability to pass throught it believing that that way he could reconnect with the rest of his world on the outside. Most probably if he tried it whoever he would had send would have ceased to exist the moment they come out outside.

    It was possible to rescue the fairies of LB6 because Morgan burned the Fantasy Tree and then had 2000+ to transform the LB into a Singularity

  11. #151571
    夜属 Nightkin Arete's Avatar
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    I understand why Lb6 was an exception; it's not what I'm talking about here. Your point doesn't really make sense since it was Chaldea who said it was possible for his pseudo-borders to reach other Lostbelts. If they would've just disappeared once they left, there'd have been no real threat. In the case of the other lostbelts, the reason why Ivan and Surtr posed a threat was because they were using the Fantasy Trees themselves, but QSH had no idea about the trees until the end, yet it was said his inventions could still reach other lostbelts despite not even knowing what a fantasy tree is.

  12. #151572
    不明 fumei's Avatar
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    Could you post the actual lines of dialogue you're referencing here? Would be way more productive for clarifying what's going on than paraphrasing.
    (You can check Atlas for the scripts easily.)
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
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    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  13. #151573
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors madarra's Avatar
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    Werent the LBs supposed to fight one another? In which case i assume people from 1 Fantasy tree can walk into another Fantasy tree world just fine and its just the Real world thats the problem? and QSH just obtained the methods to start invading other LBs

    Also, did Chaldea know at that point that OSH didnt know he's not real

  14. #151574
    whydunit Reign's Avatar
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    Were they planning to fight each other with armies or would it be some conceptual thing where the storm walls would clash and the stronger tree would make the weaker one disappear?

    Anyway Asterios's version from LB5 appeared in LB1.

  15. #151575
    祖 Ancestor OnesFleetingGlory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reign View Post
    Were they planning to fight each other with armies or would it be some conceptual thing where the storm walls would clash and the stronger tree would make the weaker one disappear?
    The former I think. The Lostbelt Kings have the authority over the Tree, so defeating them is mandatory to weaken it.

    Though that rule might not apply in LB6, where the Tree is no more. Instead, they probably must defeat Cernunnos and Oberon before its collapse threatening the world.
    My current support slots


    Record so far

  16. #151576
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    Wars between Lostbelts would have been sick.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    Punching out some nerd doesn't make you a better magus.

  17. #151577
    一心浄土 Lily Emilio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arete View Post
    Sorry if this has been asked a bunch, but shouldn't the fact that QSH found a way to get people out of his lostbelt be more significant? Like at the end of his LB, why can't he just load up a bunch of people on the fake shadow border's he's made so that they can get out past the barrier since they admit that that's possible with these ones. Having no choice but to genocide entire worlds is one thing, but we have a choice here. Heck, given that we now know it's possible to get other people out via this way, why can't we just build replicas of the SB in other LB's? It'd certainly be possible in the Greek lostbelt.

    It kinda sounds like the answer to one of the major problems of the arc has been shown to us.

    Also on that note, why is that the people riding QSH's shadow boarders would be able to survive getting past the storm walls when we're told that if we take someone in our storm board it won't work? Was that just a lie?
    I think you need to reread that part of the chapter. The fake Shadow Borders he created are mere normal armored combat vehicles, tax collection tanks. Those were completely destroyed easily by our servants. They might have the looks of the Shadow Border, but according to Da Vinci and Holmes they lack the durability and the technology required to survive the Zero Sail, something crucial to break outside of the storm wall surrounding the LB using the Imaginary Number dive. Those ripoff Shadow Borders are pretty much trash in this regard. There is no retcon because it is impossible to smuggle people outside of the storm wall with neither the real Border + the fakes.


    夢想一心

  18. #151578
    Quote Originally Posted by madarra View Post
    Also, did Chaldea know at that point that OSH didnt know he's not real
    QSH was real.
    All the people in the lostbelts were real.
    Their PAST is simulated. And not even all of it, only the period between pruning and restoration.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  19. #151579
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors madarra's Avatar
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    Nice platitudes, their lives have value and all that, but i need a way to refer to people who Fizzle out when pulled out of their LB to bleached earth and i chose Not Real

  20. #151580
    You are free to make up word meanings for your own imaginary vocabulary, I guess.
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

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