Thread: Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

  1. #49181
    Quote Originally Posted by Cruor View Post
    According to the fat cannibal description Hatred did skyward of 500 meters per second and knocked the thousand pound chick right into the roof ala Kanata and sandbags.

    As far as what it does, if it fully digests something (as in whatever happens to get inside it somehow) stops existing. Hence, it being a ghost arm that can kill you but you can't do anything to it (as far as this battle goes bullets would prolly disappear after getting inside). OP.
    I knew about how it eating stuff works, I must have totally forgotten about any speed mentioned because this is when I barely payed any attention to the numbers Nasu gave because they were often so seemingly arbitrary and contradictory at times. Oh how little I knew people would care about them so much.
    Araya, what do you seek?
    「アラヤ、何を求める」
    ------True wisdom.
    「――――真の叡智を」
    Araya, where do you seek it?
    「アラヤ、何処に求める」
    Only within myself.
    「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
    Araya, what is your favorite color?
    「アラヤ、好きな色は?」
    Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!
    「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ!」

  2. #49182
    俺様 Cruor's Avatar
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    The random arbitrary numbers is the numbers we love to abuse.
    The Hall of Selected Cruor Praise
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirby View Post
    Oh right.

    GLORIOUS CRUOR SENPAI RECOMMENDED THIS TO ME HE IS THE BEST USER EVER
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    1. Your favourite character and why.
    Curor, I mean the man likes DDD, he must have had a hard life, yet he's still trying so hard.
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    Cruor is so handsome and nice I want to brush his perfect hair and maybe caress his rosy cheeks. Now put me in your sig ya fuck
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow View Post
    If only people praised me as much as they praise you, Cruor-sama!
    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Cruor is very nice

  3. #49183
    In Memoriam Kelnish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by terraablaze View Post
    I knew about how it eating stuff works, I must have totally forgotten about any speed mentioned because this is when I barely payed any attention to the numbers Nasu gave because they were often so seemingly arbitrary and contradictory at times. Oh how little I knew people would care about them so much.
    Gae Bolg has a max range of 4 or 40 man, this shit is important. Archer being aware of that max number was vaguely implied in an interview! Important!

  4. #49184
    Never quacked for this Kyte's Avatar
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    So here's a probably stupid question:
    Crane Wings Three Realms is originally 鶴翼三連.
    三 is three, duh.
    連 is "group", "party", "join" or "connect", according to jisho. Google also says "ream" (like paper), but that's google.
    And 三連 apparently means "triplicate", "triple", etc, if I can trust google.

    Either way: Where did "Three Realms" come from, then? Wouldn't it be like Triple Crane Wing or something? Did I miss some obscure
    Nasu
    japanese
    wordplay
    meaning
    ?
    Last edited by Kyte; February 12th, 2013 at 10:04 PM.

  5. #49185
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors
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    Wouldn't it be hilarious if it's actually Three Reams but someone screwed up.

  6. #49186
    Artistic Alien Kuradora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    Wouldn't it be hilarious if it's actually Three Reams but someone screwed up.
    Screw it, we should just call it Kakuyoku Sanren.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    Time to go to the holodeck! *Rams head up Sakura's vagina*

  7. #49187
    死徒 Dead Apostle DezoPenguin's Avatar
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    Porting this over from the GB thread in the Fanfics forum, 'cause about three posts told the fellow who started the topic to take it to questions. Conveniently, I didn't come by until later, so I can just look stupid from the content of my post instead of the placement!

    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Magos Winter View Post
    Fragglerock basically hits first. Always. As long as the opponent uses their strongest technique, its an instant kill.

    The crane thing is basically an instant kill technique based around K&B's ability to attract one another and EMIYA's own abilities. One pair thrown behind the opponent, one pair at him, and then an attempt to gut him with the remaining pair. At least one blade will get through because of angles and the surprise of the blades from behind. Boom. Dead.
    So is Crane Wing Three Realms actually Archer's "trump card" technique (I assume UBW doesn't count as that since it isn't actually an attack of any sort) given that it's really just "cleverly use my default weapon's natural properties and the fact I can project a bunch of 'em"?

    Come to think of it, does that mean if Gil fired anything other than Ea ("This mongrel planet is unworthy to hold me within its gravitational pull!"), then the above-referenced "weaksauce" effect would apply? Whereas if the same weapon was used by the hero it was actually associated with (say, Saber with Excalibur) the counterattack-that-hits-first would be jacked beyond measure.

    Further fragging Fragarach fixations*:

    Would it work on Gae Bolg, since Gae Bolg is already screwing with causality?

    What if an opponent's "trump card" is actually something defensive or a stat buff? Would Frag.'s instant-kill effect just default to whatever their strongest attack happens to be, even if it's not a NP or anything particularly special?

    Does it work on area-effect attacks if Frag.'s holder isn't a target of the attack, but just someone standing in the area of effect. ("Bazett is walking through the park one day when a tree decides to offer a series of insults to Saber's lineage, wardrobe choices, and taste in romantic partners. Saber pulls out Excalibur and unloads on the tree (and everything else that happens nearby). Can Bazett whip out Fragarach and defend the squirrels?")

    *I'm weak today; can't think up a synonym for "question" that starts with F.

  8. #49188
    Taiga's knight Tobias's Avatar
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    For what it's worth, it's debateable whether or not a person only has one trump card, pretty sure Nasu once as an aside called broken phantasms a trump card of archer's, and as to the stat up thing, well, Bazett kills Heracles (once) by identifying the already active Godhand as a trump and killing him with fragerach.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bird of Hermes View Post
    The moment the opportunity arises for a pun, the one known as 'Taiga's Knight' will be there to deliver whether you like it or not.

  9. #49189
    Would it work on Gae Bolg, since Gae Bolg is already screwing with causality?
    Yes. But then Gae Bolg would hit you anyways.

  10. #49190
    死徒 Dead Apostle DezoPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    For what it's worth, it's debateable whether or not a person only has one trump card, pretty sure Nasu once as an aside called broken phantasms a trump card of archer's, and as to the stat up thing, well, Bazett kills Heracles (once) by identifying the already active Godhand as a trump and killing him with fragerach.
    Answers the "do defensive/buff abilities count" question (what form did the killing attack take, btw?).

  11. #49191
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    Quote Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
    Porting this over from the GB thread in the Fanfics forum, 'cause about three posts told the fellow who started the topic to take it to questions. Conveniently, I didn't come by until later, so I can just look stupid from the content of my post instead of the placement!



    So is Crane Wing Three Realms actually Archer's "trump card" technique (I assume UBW doesn't count as that since it isn't actually an attack of any sort) given that it's really just "cleverly use my default weapon's natural properties and the fact I can project a bunch of 'em"?

    Come to think of it, does that mean if Gil fired anything other than Ea ("This mongrel planet is unworthy to hold me within its gravitational pull!"), then the above-referenced "weaksauce" effect would apply? Whereas if the same weapon was used by the hero it was actually associated with (say, Saber with Excalibur) the counterattack-that-hits-first would be jacked beyond measure.

    Further fragging Fragarach fixations*:

    Would it work on Gae Bolg, since Gae Bolg is already screwing with causality?

    What if an opponent's "trump card" is actually something defensive or a stat buff? Would Frag.'s instant-kill effect just default to whatever their strongest attack happens to be, even if it's not a NP or anything particularly special?

    Does it work on area-effect attacks if Frag.'s holder isn't a target of the attack, but just someone standing in the area of effect. ("Bazett is walking through the park one day when a tree decides to offer a series of insults to Saber's lineage, wardrobe choices, and taste in romantic partners. Saber pulls out Excalibur and unloads on the tree (and everything else that happens nearby). Can Bazett whip out Fragarach and defend the squirrels?")

    *I'm weak today; can't think up a synonym for "question" that starts with F.
    Fragarach erases the activation of the trump card and rewrites it as "Fragarach was fired first".
    Activation -> Process -> Hit
    By erasing the activation of a trump card, you also erase the hit because of the law of causality.

    Unfortunately against Gae Bolg, causality is reversed.
    Activation <- (insert random potentially nonsensical process here by Gaia) <- Hit
    The activation of Gae Bolg can occur because you are already fated to be hit. Erasing the activation does not affect the hit at all, so you get impaled anyways.

    Bazett's Fragarach's concept cannot trump Gae Bolg yet. You may need to call out Lugh.

    Really your questions can be answered by "Fragarach works against everything if it is a trump card (if its concept is superior), and you get the weak bolt if the target is not a trump card".

    All you need to decide is "is X a trump card".
    Last edited by food; February 13th, 2013 at 12:38 AM.

  12. #49192
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyte View Post
    So here's a probably stupid question:
    Crane Wings Three Realms is originally 鶴翼三連.
    三 is three, duh.
    連 is "group", "party", "join" or "connect", according to jisho. Google also says "ream" (like paper), but that's google.
    And 三連 apparently means "triplicate", "triple", etc, if I can trust google.

    Either way: Where did "Three Realms" come from, then? Wouldn't it be like Triple Crane Wing or something? Did I miss some obscure
    Nasu
    japanese
    wordplay
    meaning
    ?
    It's "Crane Wing Triple Strike".

    三連 means 三連撃 (three consecutive strikes) or whatever other equivalent, e.g. cut, slash, etc. It has nothing to do with stacks of paper.

  13. #49193
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Oh, man, you ruined it, I was typing up a big thing about how "three reams" equals 3000 sheets of paper, and that it connects back to the ancient Japanese legend about how folding a thousand paper cranes will grant you a single wish. It was going to be wonderful.

  14. #49194
    Bitchin' Arashi_Leonhart's Avatar
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    Isn't a ream 500 pieces of paper? Wouldn't that mean 1500 pieces of paper, so only 1 1/2 wishes? Archer can't even dual-wield wishes?

  15. #49195
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    Isn't a ream 500 pieces of paper? Wouldn't that mean 1500 pieces of paper, so only 1 1/2 wishes? Archer can't even dual-wield wishes?
    Quote Originally Posted by Wikipedia
    紙を数える際の単位。1000枚を1連とという。「ream」の音訳。本来の用字は「嗹」。
    Quote Originally Posted by Kōjien
    ⑤(「嗹」とも書く。reamの当て字)洋紙の取引上の単位。平判では1000枚、巻取紙では規定寸法の1 000枚分、板紙では100枚を1連とする。
    Somebody better tell Japan, I guess.

  16. #49196

  17. #49197
    死徒 Dead Apostle Tohno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by food View Post
    Fragarach erases the activation of the trump card and rewrites it as "Fragarach was fired first".
    Activation -> Process -> Hit
    By erasing the activation of a trump card, you also erase the hit because of the law of causality.

    Unfortunately against Gae Bolg, causality is reversed.
    Activation <- (insert random potentially nonsensical process here by Gaia) <- Hit
    The activation of Gae Bolg can occur because you are already fated to be hit. Erasing the activation does not affect the hit at all, so you get impaled anyways.

    Bazett's Fragarach's concept cannot trump Gae Bolg yet. You may need to call out Lugh.

    Really your questions can be answered by "Fragarach works against everything if it is a trump card (if its concept is superior), and you get the weak bolt if the target is not a trump card".

    All you need to decide is "is X a trump card".

    Remember guys, if you use Fragarach on Gae Bolg in Fate/Unlimited Codes, there's a reason why you get the double hit goodness on each other.

  18. #49198
    Never quacked for this Kyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by food View Post
    It's "Crane Wing Triple Strike".

    三連 means 三連撃 (three consecutive strikes) or whatever other equivalent, e.g. cut, slash, etc. It has nothing to do with stacks of paper.
    Figures. So artistic license with the "Three Realms" thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Oh, man, you ruined it, I was typing up a big thing about how "three reams" equals 3000 sheets of paper, and that it connects back to the ancient Japanese legend about how folding a thousand paper cranes will grant you a single wish. It was going to be wonderful.
    This is the BL quality I've come to expect. :V

  19. #49199
    死徒 Dead Apostle DezoPenguin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by food View Post
    Fragarach erases the activation of the trump card and rewrites it as "Fragarach was fired first".
    Activation -> Process -> Hit
    By erasing the activation of a trump card, you also erase the hit because of the law of causality.
    Thank you! Surprisingly (or perhaps not surprisingly) that makes complete sense.

    All you need to decide is "is X a trump card".
    Is that "decide" in the sense of "Fragarach's user's perceptions of what's happening" or "narrative wank by the guy writing the story"? =D Watsonian or Doylist here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Oh, man, you ruined it, I was typing up a big thing about how "three reams" equals 3000 sheets of paper, and that it connects back to the ancient Japanese legend about how folding a thousand paper cranes will grant you a single wish. It was going to be wonderful.
    This one I'm hijacking for my sig!
    Last edited by DezoPenguin; February 13th, 2013 at 11:51 AM.

  20. #49200
    Quote Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
    Is that "decide" in the sense of "Fragarach's user's perceptions of what's happening" or "narrative wank by the guy writing the story"? =D Watsonian or Doylist here?
    Trump Card=Noble Phantasm 95-100% of the time; basically anything meant to be an ace in the hole will trigger Fragarach. However, something like Caster's Beamspam won't because it's not a trump card but just her own abilities.

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