Questions, questions and more questions (READ THE OP FOR ANSWERS)

[Vagrant]

Also, irrational is an interesting way to put it. Throw in a little girl Mohammed and that mushroom is getting diced.

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What is a Hassan or that guy in Case Files then?

Like he said, nothing Muslim will ever be relevant in Fate.

[Elthanes]

I never said Odin made Gram or Balmung. I said that it or it's legend was created with the help of divine nature. Cthulhu probably didn't handwrite Gilles' book either, but that doesn't mean its not the Cthulhu Book.

You are completly mixing up your legends.
The origin of Balmung from the Nibelungenlied and Gram from the Edda is completly different.

[Marmadillo]

I'm sorry but nothing Muslim will ever be relevant in Fate because of Nasu's irrational fear of getting Hebdoed.

How can he get Hebdoed when no one knows what he looks like?

[Vagrant]

Is Nasu Mohammed?

[AmADo VII]

And 1/4th of the world's population is Muslim so do the math.

you called me?

[Christemo]

You are completly mixing up your legends.
The origin of Balmung from the Nibelungenlied and Gram from the Edda is completly different.

No, lol. I am going by the way nasu did it, which is what the discussion was about. Who gives a shit about what the actual legend says.

[Thedoctor]

No, lol. I am going by the way nasu did it, which is what the discussion was about. Who gives a shit about what the actual legend says.

[hinode]

Apo says that the prototype of Balmung is Gram. That's all.

Okay, that makes a lot more sense than an actual reforging, considering the Nordic versions of the story are usually dated earlier than the Christianized German one.

Sigurd is the Norse version.
And doesn't Wagner rename the sword on reforging it?

I just skimmed a translation of Wagner and the sword's named Nothung before and after the reforging.

No, lol. I am going by the way nasu did it, which is what the discussion was about. Who gives a shit about what the actual legend says.

I'm going to ask for a citation here, what You posted makes far more sense than actual reforging and renaming.

[Christemo]

Fate/complete material II: Character material - Weapons: Gram, p.134

A sword that appears in the “Völsunga Saga” of Norse mythology. It is wielded by the hero Sigurd. The incident where Sigurd’s father Sigmund pulled Gram from the trunk of a tree later became the model for Caliburn, the sword in the stone. After Sigurd reforged Gram from the shattered pieces, it is said to have become a demonic sword capable even of killing a dragon.

Balmung: Phantasmal Greatsword, Felling of the Sky Demon ( 幻想大剣・天魔失墜バルムンク , Barumunku: Gensō Daiken, Tenma Shittsui?) is a two-handed, golden greatsword with a blue jewel embedded in the hilt that boasts a magnificence and enormity possible only for weapons tended to by inhuman hands. It is the holy sword of the Nibelungs, used to slay the dragon, Fafnir. It is a cursed holy blade possessing the attributes of Gram, the demonic blade of its origin, so it will change attributes between holy sword and demonic sword depending on who wields it. Having accomplished the feat of dragon slaying, those with the blood of dragons will take additional damage from it.

Given that Siegfried is Sigurd in Nasuverse until proven otherwise, this should do it.

[Cruor]

Yeah, but is he Sigmund as well??

[Christemo]

How can he be his own dad?

[Elthanes]

Given that Siegfried is Sigurd in Nasuverse until proven otherwise, this should do it.

Siegfried in Apocrypha is completly based on the Nibelungenlied.
He nothing to do with Sigurd.
That part only refers to the fact that Balmung is based on Gram

[Christemo]

Siegfried in Apocrypha is completly based on the Nibelungenlied.
He nothing to do with Sigurd.

Yeah they only slew the same dragon and stuff.

My point is, can you prove the existence of a Nasu Sigurd? Not really in any convincing detail, seeing as he doesn't exist yet.

Can you prove the existence of Siegfried, who has a sword reforged from Sigmund's busted sword? Yes.

[hinode]

Can you prove the existence of Siegfried, who has a sword reforged from Sigmund's busted sword? Yes.

you can't, because Balmung didn't belong to Siegfried's dad and was never reforged. Pay attention to what you just posted.

[Cruor]

Oh now I know what's going on.

Okay there's Sigmund/Sigurd. The weird Werewolf-skinchanger guy. He pulled Gram from a tree. He's father of Siegfried/Sigurd. He died when Odin got angry at him for being too strong and broke his sword him killed him. 'Greatest hero of Europe' or whatever according to Gil.

Then there's Siegfried/Sigurd. Guy who got murdered by Attila the Hun's sister or a Valkyrie depending on which one you are talking about. Previous guy's son. Killed the dragon Fafnir and bathed in its blood becoming mostly invulnerable after it tricked him into reforging Gram for him. Gram becoming Balmung or staying Gram depending who you are talking about.

Christemo is saying Siegfried is Sigurd (as in of the other version of the legend) because Apoc Sieg is clearly the Nibel one.

Am I getting this right?

[Christemo]

Yes

Alternatively Siegfried and Sigurd (the son) are two reflections of the same legend ala the guys who got summoned by the Edelfelts in the 3rd war.

[Vagrant]

It'd be super lame if ae finally saw the third war and it was just Siegfried again.

[Christemo]

It'd be super lame if ae finally saw the third war and it was just Siegfried again.

Given that the hero in question was one with an evil and good side I doubt it was Siegfried. Could be Sigmund if his werewolf stuff counts as evil.

[Vagrant]

You could easily paint Siegfried as evil. Lol infidelity everywhere, play that up a lot as well as greed from the One Ring and you're basically sold.

[Siriel]

Was it actually stated to be good/evil? I thought it was just two facets.

You could easily paint Siegfried as evil. Lol infidelity everywhere, play that up a lot as well as greed from the One Ring and you're basically sold.

Nasuverse Siegfried was absolutely completely perfect, the ideal unrivaled hero that had no flaws.