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Thread: The Grail Works Mission Dossier (Discussion & Ideas)

  1. #6681
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Why Frid Should (Probably Not) Work With Arcueid

    Avalon Castle, Phantasmagoria Island (Grail Works, Ltd. Headquarters)
    Outside the boundaries of time and space









    In his admittedly far-from-biased opinion, Arcueid Brunestud was the most beautiful female in Grail Works, Limited.

    It was, admittedly, a loaded claim considering that the competition was composed of eroge heroines, but he felt confident in its validity. From the meta perspective, she was an eponymous heroine—something even Arturia couldn’t claim—and therefore automatically Best Girl. Even running solely off in-universe logic, however, the most successful predators attracted their prey to them, as it made hunting much easier, in the long run. Rider (and her sisters, in a way) was an excellent example of this.

    Dead Apostles weren’t generally an exception to this rule; while the upper echelons could certainly look bizarre, that still made them eye-catching, in a way, engaging people’s curiosity and prompting them to investigate. And Arcueid had been designed to be not only a predator of these predators, but the supreme specimen of such—so naturally, she was the most breathtaking thing on two legs. But even if one was disinclined to follow either narrative or evolutionary logic, he had yet still more physical evidence of Arcueid’s literally unparalleled beauty:

    The fact that she could make a thunderous scowl—the kind that belonged on the face of a sulking eight-year-old, never mind her physical (or actual) age—look cute.

    “. . . I wanted to stay with Shiki . . .

    Frid said sympathetically, “I know—but they were right, too. It is a good idea to see how our powers interact, seeing as they’re both sourced in the Moon.”

    He tried very hard not to show pain at her reaction; fortunately, while she might have Michelle Ruff’s voice, Arcueid was presently in a “casual” mood, without the deadly seriousness which brought out the dark richness that made that voice so enticing to him.

    (Seriously, Rukia Kuchiki’s dubbing was 90% of the reason he’d put up with Bleach for as long as he had—and her design was the other ten percent. Carolyn Jones and Cassandra Peterson were the only two other women he’d known who had voices like that—though Jennifer Hale could manage it, when she tried . . .)

    Still, he knew Arcueid wasn’t being malicious; as she had originally been described to him, back in the days when he was first learning of TYPE-MOON’s creations, her relationship with Shiki was “like a child with her first friend.” Frid might be a middle-aged curmudgeon under his current chassis, but he still remembered that feeling. She wasn’t spiting him, just upset at losing out on time with her favourite person.

    Yes, it still stung a bit—but as he was a diehard Shiki/Arc shipper (with probably Hisui in second place), he could hardly begrudge her the sentiment . . .

    “I suppose,” Arcueid sighed begrudgingly, drawing him from his thoughts. “But why couldn’t Shiki have come with us . . .?”

    “Because if anything went really wrong, he might have been hurt,” Frid replied automatically, causing the True Ancestor’s crimson eyes to widen, “and nobody wants that.”

    “No,” Arcueid agreed in a subdued tone. “. . . I didn’t think of that.”

    “You’re not used to dealing with humans, and you are used to Shiki being unnaturally competent for a human,” Frid said reasonably. “How fragile he might be isn’t something you likely consider on a regular basis—aside from a general notion that all humans are, anyway.”

    She nodded. “Uh-huh.” After a beat, she tilted her head to look at him inquisitively. “ . . . You know, you’re very strange.”

    “That’s usually the politest way people put it, yes,” Frid said. “What in particular strikes you that way?”

    “Well,” Arcueid remarked, “if it had been Ciel, or Little Sister talking to me about this, they’d have been grumpy—or yelled—about how ‘I was being thoughtless.’ Even Shiki would have sighed, I think.” She peered at him earnestly, her wide, intent eyes reminding him of nothing so much as a curious cat. “Why are you being so nice about this?”

    “A number of reasons,” he said easily. “First, I’m not a rival for Shiki’s attention, and you’re very pretty, so I’m not given to thinking the worst of you by reflex and inclined to give you a break when I can . . . I also know a bit about your history that Ciel might not, and Akiha certainly doesn’t, so I have more context for why you act the way you do—so, again, it inclines me to be more lenient.

    “I’m also well aware that you’re smart enough to learn to be more careful and compatible with the modern world,” he continued warningly, “so my patience isn’t unlimited; but for now, everything’s still pretty new to you, so allowances should be made, right?”

    “. . . You sound like some people do around Ren,” Arcueid observed, “because they think she’s a little girl.”

    Her voice was too even for him to guess whether or not she found that insulting. Nevertheless, he spoke a little more carefully in response.

    “As I understand things, you’ve spent most of your life asleep—in terms of actual life experience, you might not have many more years than a small child,” he said quietly. “I may be misinformed, but that’s the impression of things I’ve been given—which reminds me,” he said suddenly, “have you considered ascending to the Throne of Heroes?”

    Arcueid blinked. “Huh? What are you talking about?”

    “Well,” Frid said carefully, “again, as I understand it, True Ancestors, or something very much like them, can access the Throne of Heroes freely so they can be summoned as Servants—a more proper version of what that idiot in the Moon Cell did. It’d mean a power downgrade, but you’d essentially sacrifice your bloodlust in the process; and by using the Holy Grail in conjunction, you could incarnate as flesh and blood, lessening or bypassing the prana requirements on your Mast—”

    “Eh?” Arcueid exclaimed, wide-eyed. “I can do that?!”

    “So I’ve been led to believe,” he said. “The specifics of how, you’d probably have to ask Ilya, Rin or Saku—”

    Between one blink and the next, the White Princess was gone.

    “—raaaand now we’re doing this, instead,” Frid muttered. “I had to open my mouth . . .”








    Sometime much, much later








    “Yahoo!” greeted the blonde who emerged from the summoning circle with a sunny smile. “Hi, Shiki—you can call me Caster, now, if you want . . .!”
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  2. #6682
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    She is (mostly) a 16-year-old girl, and while Frid has is sympathetic to her, he's also not an Akiha fanboy - so she has less of a psychological impact, beyond that of any pretty girl. By contrast, to his mind, Hisui's a shy little sweetheart, Kohaku is fucking dangerous, and Arcueid is the reason he got sold on Tsukihime and TYPE-MOON in the first place . . .
    Inversion impulse in general spooks me, but yeah, Kohaku is consistently dangerous and malicious in a way that Akiha isn't.
    This is true. I'm now picturing a subconscious battle between the element of the Crimson Moon in Arc and the aspect of Luna in Frid; as one is the Type of the Moon, the other its equivalent to Gaia . . .
    I'm not sure I'd map one of the Incarnae to Gaia. since they feel like they have more direct agency than Gaia does, but it's closer than mapping them to Alaya, I guess. They seem more like Types, if anything. Still two similar but distinct entities, though. If you want to triple-up on the Moon references, you could search for the Sword of Atli on the Far Side of the Moon Cell, though we've been to the Moon Cell before.
    Possibly because she's the major Fate character who hasn't voiced a real opinion on him yet?
    Maybe that's it. Sakura generally hasn't gotten much coverage in relation to your characters, and Rider just sort of acts as her shadow.
    *Nods* Fair. Although, as stated way back in "Legacies of Fate," the anime's version of Shiki is my hero, so it might be interesting . . . Especially considering some of the places they could end up.
    Oh yeah. You probably don't have to worry quite as much about taking popular characters out of the Grail Works cast these days, since the forum seems less active
    Adding Altera to Shirou's harem . . .? You tell me.
    This is bad civilization.
    . . . In all honesty, I would love to add Altera to the Works - let's face it, if she could be safely removed, the Moon Cell would help them do it - but she doesn't want to fight, and combat power would be the primary asset she brings to the table; it hardly seems fair. Short of working out a set of shenanigans to let her manifest as Altera the San(ta), or some crossover/fusion variant, I'm at a loss to figure out how to do it that would let her live peacefully, yet still let her bring something to the Works' repertoire.
    I have not actually played Extella, but that does seem troublesome. Saber doesn't do MUCH fighting, but she's still up for it when needed. Seems like more of a case to help her, than recruit her.
    . . . Would you want to see Frid and Rin pair off . . .? (Admittedly, I'm partial to Ereshkigal, but that's not the same thing, is it?)
    Not really, but it seems like a potentially funny opportunity. I would expect some combination of Godafrid being oblivious, and Rin being not straightforward. It's just not in her nature. And since that's short of "flashing neon sign" levels, that will result in an amusingly frustrated Rin. Although with the Yoseigan available, that might be less of an issue for Godafrid than it was for Galen... cheater.
    Noted, and logical, so I appreciate it - but I'm also interested in what you want to see. Even oddball whims; done right, they might develop into something amazing.
    You're the one in charge of execution (and you're damn good at it), so I'm pretty confident whatever you choose will be done well. There are merits to polling for inspiration though, I have a lot of experience not thinking sufficiently outside the box.
    . . . For example, all we know of XX's slip is that he's involved (somehow) with someone whose name or title begins with "La-". Based on that, the obvious conclusions are "Lancer" (though which one could involve some genuinely bizarre circumstances), "Laeticia" (a bit odd, given her normality, but potentially plausible), or even "Lakshmibai." The latter would be a really interesting story, as she's nowhere near the radar at the moment. Mechanically, she's even trickier - according to her profile, she's only as powerful as she is in F/GO due to the Lostbelt, and a lot of her stats don't have much room to downgrade . . .
    I finally figured out what you were referencing there. I forgot about it. I briefly thought "Labelas" before I found the context. In context, Laeticia seems more likely, but there are other options.
    Yes, sadly - I like Astraea, and she sadly has fewer issues in joining the Works than Luvia proper (which is ludicrous, when you think about it). But working out how to arrange it would be an effort.
    Does seem like maybe more trouble than it's worth.
    Well, that's a bit of a relief - does the same apply to Caren?
    Yes, yes it does. Again, referencing previous musings in this thread.


    EDIT:
    Oh wait, I just simul-posted, oh boy.

    WAIT THAT'S ILLEGAL. Is that Marble Phantasm justifying Caster? That's likely how she ascended in the first place, of course. Seems like a lot of work to get rid of bloodlust, where she could be hanging out with Shiki, but I guess it sounded... fun? Arceuid's capriciousness is not to be underestimated.
    Also a great nod to the Patron Saint of Lolicon title, of course.
    Last edited by Arbitrarity; September 30th, 2020 at 10:05 PM.

  3. #6683
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    Inversion impulse in general spooks me,
    Fair point - but by the same token, an Exalt is generally better equipped to handle that than, say, a mortal.


    but yeah, Kohaku is consistently dangerous and malicious in a way that Akiha isn't.
    And good enough at hiding it that you're never quite sure . . .

    The girl needs serious therapy and/or prolonged exposure to one of the "cooler spectrum" of Power Rings - an infusion of hope, compassion and/or love would do wonders for her.


    I'm not sure I'd map one of the Incarnae to Gaia. since they feel like they have more direct agency than Gaia does, but it's closer than mapping them to Alaya, I guess. They seem more like Types, if anything. Still two similar but distinct entities, though. If you want to triple-up on the Moon references, you could search for the Sword of Atli on the Far Side of the Moon Cell, though we've been to the Moon Cell before.
    Yes, and CCC and/or Extella have yet to happen in that universe . . .


    Maybe that's it. Sakura generally hasn't gotten much coverage in relation to your characters, and Rider just sort of acts as her shadow.
    Because, as I've said before, I'm not sure how to handle her . . . Truthfully, Prisma Ilya's Sakura (Miyu's, specifically) is the one I resonate most with; if I could figure out how to cut her loose, I would.


    Oh yeah. You probably don't have to worry quite as much about taking popular characters out of the Grail Works cast these days, since the forum seems less active
    True, though I'm still attempting to be fair about this.


    This is bad civilization.
    OK - just checking.


    I have not actually played Extella, but that does seem troublesome. Saber doesn't do MUCH fighting, but she's still up for it when needed. Seems like more of a case to help her, than recruit her.
    Fair again - I suppose it's a question of to what extent the term "help" covers, to a degree . . . I do like her, though. It's just, if she sticks around, the best use I can see for her is "bodyguard" (much like Arturia). At least with her Santa form, there's an opportunity to leverage it to other things . . .

    . . . Of course, if she's just "Altera Lily," (I hate, HATE, HATE "Altera Larva" as a designation), then that's potentially something different . . .

    (And now I'm suddenly seeing her being "raised" between Sakura and Kohaku, rather than Nero and Tamamo . . .)


    Not really, but it seems like a potentially funny opportunity. I would expect some combination of Godafrid being oblivious, and Rin being not straightforward. It's just not in her nature. And since that's short of "flashing neon sign" levels, that will result in an amusingly frustrated Rin. Although with the Yoseigan available, that might be less of an issue for Godafrid than it was for Galen... cheater.
    Assuming he still has those; we never have gone into the mechanism behind that identity (yet), have we . . .?


    You're the one in charge of execution (and you're damn good at it), so I'm pretty confident whatever you choose will be done well.
    Thank you. I can honestly never say enough just how much I appreciate the compliments.


    There are merits to polling for inspiration though, I have a lot of experience not thinking sufficiently outside the box.
    And I want to try and please people, if I can.


    I finally figured out what you were referencing there. I forgot about it. I briefly thought "Labelas" before I found the context. In context, Laeticia seems more likely, but there are other options.
    True - but as we know it's a "Lah" sound over "Lay," that does narrow it a bit.


    Does seem like maybe more trouble than it's worth.
    It's worth a lot - but realistically arranging things so that the Clock Tower, Church or Gaia doesn't come crashing down on their heads as a result is . . . Not easy. It makes certain ideas and concepts, however enticing, worth shelving.

    . . . That's the problem with so many recent characters in TYPE-MOON being magi; they're neat as anything (Gray, for example), but too deeply connected to the things the Works needs to stay away from in order to be viable.


    Yes, yes it does. Again, referencing previous musings in this thread.
    Again, OK - though again, Caren is arguably the easiest one to manage, of all of them (except maybe Miyako . . .?).


    EDIT:
    Oh wait, I just simul-posted, oh boy.

    WAIT THAT'S ILLEGAL. Is that Marble Phantasm justifying Caster? That's likely how she ascended in the first place, of course.
    If it can work for a knockoff version like Yu Miaoyi, why shouldn't Arc be able to take advantage of it?


    Seems like a lot of work to get rid of bloodlust, where she could be hanging out with Shiki, but I guess it sounded... fun? Arceuid's capriciousness is not to be underestimated.
    Potentially a way to cure her that means she doesn't have to go back to sleep, ever, and can stay with Shiki? Thereby defusing all most of Ciel's arguments against her hanging out with him? She'd at least be interested. Yeah, it might cost her some power - but if she's using 70% to suppress her bloodlust normally, and lost 80% as it was, what's the big deal if it sets her maximum at 25% (-ish)?


    Also a great nod to the Patron Saint of Lolicon title, of course.
    . . . OK, I admit - I don't quite grasp your meaning.
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  4. #6684
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    Assuming he still has those; we never have gone into the mechanism behind that identity (yet), have we . . .?
    I mean, I know he's a Lunar Exalted, so... huh. I don't really know why he has that particular ability, but I assumed it behaved like Prey's Skin Disguise somehow, except without the annoying acquisition problems. That does likely mean he'd plausibly lose it in the Works, but just being a Lunar Exalted is a lot more perceptiveness than Galen has.
    If it can work for a knockoff version like Yu Miaoyi, why shouldn't Arc be able to take advantage of it?
    Oh THAT'S where that came from. I am not up-to-date enough on my lore. Very interesting implications.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    . . . OK, I admit - I don't quite grasp your meaning.
    “. . . You sound like some people do around Ren,” Arcueid observed, “because they think she’s a little girl.”
    ...
    “As I understand things, you’ve spent most of your life asleep—in terms of actual life experience, you might not have many more years than a small child,” he said quietly. “I may be misinformed, but that’s the impression of things I’ve been given

  5. #6685
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    I mean, I know he's a Lunar Exalted, so... huh. I don't really know why he has that particular ability, but I assumed it behaved like Prey's Skin Disguise somehow, except without the annoying acquisition problems.
    There is actually a method behind his gaining of that specific identity - and it's part of the reason that he keeps noting that he's not actually Godafrid. There just . . . Hasn't really been a time or place to lay it out, yet.


    That does likely mean he'd plausibly lose it in the Works, but just being a Lunar Exalted is a lot more perceptiveness than Galen has.
    Potentially, at least, yes. He'd probably do better post the Shuffle! mission - but what fun would that be?


    Oh THAT'S where that came from. I am not up-to-date enough on my lore. Very interesting implications.
    Indeed . . . A way to solve Arc's issues that's canon, does not (technically) require the use of the Grail - thus freeing it up for, say, Akiha or Shiki's issues - and is presumably not-easy enough to deserve a story/quest unto itself . . .?

    Somebody
    jump on this - please!


    . . . And ah - I admit, I had honestly not considered it, in that sense; though I do take your point . . .
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  6. #6686
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Cries of Confusion

    Sometime after the Great Holy Grail War








    “From the shards of tattered dreams I rose, unwilling; tossed upon tides of pain which flowed and ebbed, leaving me searingly awake—and more revoltingly, alive . . .

    The harsh voice spoke words, which he understood, and certainly agreed with—but where the voice came from, and how he knew that it had an accent, or whose voice it even was, he didn’t know. He didn’t know a lot of things, when he could actually think about it—the pain made it so hard to focus . . .

    “—offer no certainties; even willingly allowed, such an act—not meant to be possible. It will cause pain, and I cannot—I will endeavour to—“

    Another voice, and more words; it was more solid, somehow, but even more fragmented, at the same time. And there was no context—what was she talking about?

    “When it starts, try to remember the reason you’re doing this—it might help with the pain.”

    “I’ve felt pain before.”

    “Not like this.”


    More voices—male and female this time, but different again, and back to the ephemeral sense of reality the first had carried. It was like they were dreams, or pieces of dreams, but without the whole . . . What was he hearing, and why . . .?

    “It is a rare reward indeed, to be given a—hope you treasure it sincere—”

    As he parsed the new sentence fragments, they brought with them a new sensation—touch. Warmth and cold, combined and unexpected, flowed through his being, bringing with them some notion of the limits and definition of his self (he was not yet aware enough to call it a “body”). The warmth was soft, delicate and brief; the cold somehow invigorating rather than chilling, sending a tingling sensation of energy through him—

    And then, his sense memory latched onto the same sensations, amplified. Cold deep enough to burn and fire hot enough to numb raced through him, coalescing the pain into a great wave that hurled him into darkness—and even as he sank into the abyss of oblivion, a final, faint hymn reached his consciousness.




    “Soul of the mind, key to life’s ether;
    Soul of the
    lost, withdrawn from its vessel . . .
    Let strength be granted, so the world might be mended . . .
    So the world might be mended . . .”









    Unknown place, unknown time








    It was the pain that woke him—a sudden spasm of his body, brought on by a white-hot jolt which sizzled along his nerves until it left the impression of being a full-body bruise, at least. It wasn’t his worst pain—he thought—but it was definitely something that caught his attention.

    . . . Eventually, Frid realised that he was still alive—he was Frid, wasn’t he? Or was he Kurai, or—?

    Hang on . . .

    Hurt too much to want to move, but I still can—skin’s paler than Kurai, and more muscular than me, so Frid’s a decent bet . . . Assuming that wasn’t a hallucination or dream, anyway.

    God knew, the whole “Grail Works” thing seemed like the kind of thing his subconscious would come up with, never mind the haziness of his more recent memories.

    A quick scrub of his face with one palm (well “quick” for someone moving with literally agonising slowness) revealed no glasses or tangibly inhuman features. Granted, he wouldn’t necessarily feel moonsilver tattoos, for example, but pointed ears and such were easy to check for.

    His arm dropped to one side, and he closed his eyes against a sudden wave of dizziness. It felt like his insides had been hollowed, the void inside was dragging his mind spiralling down into oblivion . . .

    Head rush, a sardonic whisper in the back of his mind murmured. It was the standard response in his family when light-headedness struck; usually as a result of standing up too quickly from a crouch or bending over, causing the edges of his vision to blur, as well.

    And given that he was presently lying on the ground, Frid fuzzily thought that was a bad sign. He hadn’t felt this awful since his last bout with the flu, and this was like he’d slammed into concrete going full-tilt on top of that; what the hell had happened . . .?

    And if he curled up and kept his eyes closed, would it just go away?

    . . . Eventually, the insistent ache in his shoulder from whatever he was lying on convinced him that first, no, the universe was not going to just leave him alone—and that second, if he didn’t move soon, the pinching of that nerve was going to leave his whole arm numb.

    He hated when that happened—rubbing feeling back into it was always such a literal pain . . .

    With a weak groan that nevertheless expressed how deeply he regretted moving, he began to shift—

    And then the wind followed suit, bringing with it THE STENCH, and he was suddenly wide-eyed and upright.

    “A FUCKING GARBAGE DUMP?!

    Yelling had been a mistake—now THE STENCH was in his mouth . . .

    Resisting the urge to throw up (not remembering his last meal, he had no idea what would come out if he tried), he did his best to turn out of the wind and head away, hoping to find an exit. No matter what had happened or where he was, he wasn’t spending any more time in this place than he absolutely had to.

    OK, so this universe, wherever it is, hates me more than most of them—either that or it just has a sick sense of humour—is this supposed to be a metaphor . . .? Never mind, look around! Not just exits—what’s here? What does it say about where we are . . .?

    This
    looks like modern garbage, he decided at last, because that is a backhoe, if I’m not mistaken. Hell of a thing to just dump; don’t they recycle heavy equipment like that? All the metal in it has to be worth something, and it doesn’t even look like it was stripped for parts—

    . . . At a guess, then, I’m somewhere on Earth in the mid-twentieth to early twenty-first century—and if they’re not recycling, err on the former side of the scale.

    That was . . . Well, not great, but workable. At least it was familiar, probably—if it was before 1980, he’d likely have issues. Moreso if he was still in Romania (he had been there, right? Or had it been a dream, after all?), or back in Japan; he didn’t know enough of either country’s history to know what to expect of them, then. Hadn’t Romania been part of the USSR . . .?

    I need to move very, very carefully, he decided, looking around for a gate—and maybe to get a better sense of his when and where.

    There were, he noted, a lot of Japanese fragments scattered on this trash. That might suggest that this was Japan (or at least somewhere in Asia), but given the regularity of imports (especially in modern times) and the number of languages they tended to put on labels and instructions, it wasn’t definitive. There was a distinct lack of the script he’d seen in Trifas—whether from the Fate/apocrypha anime’s location designs, or actual experience, he still wasn’t sure; his immediate memory was too muddled . . .

    Or maybe that was THE STENCH, poisoning his powers of recollection.

    For him, he was dressed in clothes that looked like they’d belong in Trifas: black denim pants, a blue silk shirt that would’ve matched Ciel’s hair colour, with combat boots that zipped up along the inner tibia, with the whole thing covered by a long overcoat that had runic impressions literally woven into the fabric. Of the whole ensemble, however, only the boots looked completely intact; the jeans were mud-stained and frayed at the cuffs, the shirt and coat torn and what looked like burned—though given the lack of char, he was inclined to attribute the damages to acid rather than flame.

    What the hell did I get myself into . . .?

    Whatever it had been, he looked like a homeless person—and given the smell he’d undoubtedly picked up from lying in a place inundated with THE STENCH, he’d have a hard time convincing anyone he wasn’t. Searching the clothes, however, turned up a wallet in a hidden pocket in the coat. It had three different identification cards (one of them reading “Godafrid Úa Súilleabháin,” which did match those impressions of Trifas), and a credit card for each—which expired in 2005, and so might not be useful, depending on when, exactly, he was. The physical currency in the wallet, however, added up to a thousand American dollars in cash and coins; all of them several decades old, even accounting for the fact that Trifas had been in 2004.

    Makes sense—U.S. currency is accepted just about anywhere, even preferred, at any time post-World War II. If I needed emergency funds that weren’t particularly traceable, it’d be my go-to choice.

    So he could at least afford a hotel room (and a bath), assuming he could find one within walking distance. That would give him a chance to catch his breath, and work out whether or not he could call Ilya, or needed to do something more drastic, like a Servant summoning (for some reason, he had a sense that that would work, if he tried it); but first, he needed to get out of here, wherever that w—

    A sudden stumble broke his train of thought (if thankfully nothing else), and the act forced him to stop moving and consider things, frowning all the while. By now, the level of pain had dulled itself down to something approaching what used to be his “normal”: stiff and sore, with a general sense of aches and pains that came with being middle-aged and in largely poor health and fitness. Except that a second, closer look showed a lot more muscle tone than he’d ever had back then, so obviously that wasn’t the case.

    And the lack of its flaring with any particular movements implied that he had no recent injuries, either—which was really surprising, given the state of his clothes—so why was he hurting so much . . .?

    As there’s no physical cause notable, maybe try looking for a metaphysical one?

    Standing in place, he closed his eyes and breathed as deeply as he dared given the presence of THE STENCH, trying to centre himself and see if he could determine a mental or magical reason for feeling like he’d been run over by an eighteen-wheeler . . .

    He found nothing.

    More specifically, there were no mental switches to indicate shape-changing capability, or any other supernatural abilities that need to be turned on; no memorised spells or rituals to summon powers beyond mortal ken—there was just a sense of numbness.

    Either he’d done something so overwhelming that he’d overstressed everything for the time being, or he was somehow stuck without any powers at all.

    Well, that argues for the whole Grail Works thing being a
    hallucination—except I wouldn’t look like this if it had been . . .

    He closed his eyes, considered things, and made a snap decision. This, if nothing else, would prove whether or not he was more delusional than normal, and hopefully get him some clues as to where he was and what the hell was going on—and not get him killed in the process.

    He took a deep breath (and tried not to gag in the process), tilted his head to the sky, and yelled, “What else can possibly go wrong?!”

    Going by the sudden sound of movement up ahead, this universe knew a cue when it heard one.

    He braced himself, trying to locate cover and keep out of immediate view, all the while keeping his eyes peeled for—

    It was a girl, going by the skirt. More specifically his guess was a Japanese schoolgirl, given that she looked to be wearing a beret-like cap of the sort that Ilya liked (or Donald Duck, to more accurately source the style). He thought he caught a flash of orange as she descended into the rim of the crater, but it might’ve been the sunlight reflecting off something in her direction; it was getting kind of late . . .

    He squinted, trying to make out more detail, but the best he could say was “dark,” and that was in comparison to the white of her clothes. So, she possibly had normal Japanese colouring, as opposed to anime Japanese colouring.

    If it’s the latter, then she reminds me of Kaede Fuyou, from Shuffle! But it can’t be her; the school uniform for that series is a lot darker, and even from here, I see way too much wh—

    The girl reached into a pile of junk with smooth familiarity, and withdrew something that shone in the dimming light.

    That’s definitely not Kaede—Kaede never carried around anything like that.

    Its exact nature he couldn’t tell at this distance, but it sure looked like a machete that would make Jason Voorhes feel envy.

    . . . Damn it, what was going on?

    Where the hell was he?









    Furude/Hojo Residence
    Outside Furude Shrine, Hinamizawa









    She stared disbelievingly at the calendar.

    How—?

    Like everything else in the house, it was intimately familiar to her. She knew what it would look like, what it would say, whenever she opened her eyes. Like so much of her life, it refused to change. For so long (had it been decades? Had it been centuries?), she knew, without fail, what she would see when she looked upon that page . . .

    Until today.





    May 20, 1983










    Writer's Notes: Hey, if they can thank TYPE-MOON in their end credits, then why not?

    Bonus points if you can identify all the references . . . Or, possibly, a sign of age.
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  7. #6687
    Kamen Rider fan-writer Xamusel's Avatar
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    I'm only able to tell this is set in the Higurashi universe... however, what I'm unable to guess is why the date is supposed to be significant, Kieran. Care to enlighten me?
    Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile

    For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.




    Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.

    An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.




    Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?

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    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xamusel View Post
    I'm only able to tell this is set in the Higurashi universe... however, what I'm unable to guess is why the date is supposed to be significant, Kieran. Care to enlighten me?
    MAJOR Higurashi spoiler! Be warned!
    There's a time loop involved in the series which, to my understanding, has heretofore been limited to June, 1983.
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  9. #6689
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    I also haven't read Higurashi or Umineko yet. Definitely a concerning place to end up, from what I have heard. I only really got it at Furude (I hadn't opened the link yet). Unfortunately, that leaves me in the dark about the early references. I recognize that junkyard, but don't really understand why/when he is.
    Spoiler:
    You're going hard on the crazy time loops, in this case. He's actually BEFORE the main game events, judging from what I can see, which is very interesting. Probably gives him a better shot at intervening, but also means things will be more off-the-rails when he does. That would explain Rika's surprise.

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    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    I also haven't read Higurashi or Umineko yet.
    Nor have I, to be honest - this is just based on the limits of what I can find out on my own thus far. Unlike a lot of series in this regard, however, I apparently actually can; the games are translated, and for sale - or, if I want a quicker version, the complete anime is available on Blu-Ray for a not-totally-unreasonable price.


    Definitely a concerning place to end up, from what I have heard.
    Oh, absolutely - and it just gets worse the deeper I look . . .

    And especially if he is, somehow, a vanilla mortal again.


    I only really got it at Furude (I hadn't opened the link yet). Unfortunately, that leaves me in the dark about the early references.
    The italicised quotes are from (in order) the opening soliloquy to Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2, the adamantium infusion scene of X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and the blessing of the Maiden in Black from Demon's Souls.


    I recognize that junkyard, but don't really understand why/when he is.
    As it pertains to a potential ending of Fate/Anarchy, I won't quite too much away, save that the bolded dialogue, fragmented as it is, is the key to it - so you may end up seeing it again in a more complete form.

    Looking at "why" from another aspect, however . . . There are a few reasons.

    First, the murder mystery element appeals to me - it's something that I haven't done before (or the Works, for that matter), and the fact that I can legitimately write Frid as not knowing what's going on means that he'll have to work for it. Second, of course, is that it's an unholy mess of the sort that the Works exists to try and clean up; and unlike what little I've found on Umineko so far, that cleaning method won't involve "burn everything to the ground and salt the earth remaining" (seriously, that thing's a mess that makes this look tame, from what I can tell) . . .

    Lastly - and this is the really interesting part - I think a case can be made for its taking place in the Works' actual world.

    Underlying Higurashi Plot Points - again, be warned!
    After all, time looping via mind transfer to parallel worlds? That's Kaleidoscope in action. Hanyu being anything from a demon to a god to an alien? *Looks at F/GO flatly* . . . Gosh, where have we seen that before . . .? And the Hinamizawa Syndrome and related effects sure sound like something Nasu would dream up, either via a rogue magus' or a TYPE's shenanigans. And then, of course, there's the traumatised little girl(s).


    . . . At the very least, it wouldn't take much in the way of adaptation to pull it off. And that being the case, certain characters' reactions to meeting the Works (and vice versa) could be hilarious.



    Spoiler:
    You're going hard on the crazy time loops, in this case. He's actually BEFORE the main game events, judging from what I can see, which is very interesting. Probably gives him a better shot at intervening, but also means things will be more off-the-rails when he does. That would explain Rika's surprise.
    Yes to all.
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  11. #6691
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Oh, absolutely - and it just gets worse the deeper I look . . .

    And especially if he is, somehow, a vanilla mortal again.
    Between his knowledge, the time, and Lunar powers, he could probably devastate the timeline normally.
    The italicised quotes are from (in order) the opening soliloquy to Legacy of Kain: Blood Omen 2, the adamantium infusion scene of X-Men Origins: Wolverine, and the blessing of the Maiden in Black from Demon's Souls.
    And I have read/played/watched none of those, sadly. They do have some interesting implications that might explain his being a vanilla mortal.
    As it pertains to a potential ending of Fate/Anarchy, I won't quite too much away, save that the bolded dialogue, fragmented as it is, is the key to it - so you may end up seeing it again in a more complete form.
    It makes me think of the Seldarine again, but I can't figure out how they'd be there. Hel is also in play, which might be relevant.
    Looking at "why" from another aspect, however . . . There are a few reasons.
    I did mean mostly in the physical sense, not the meta-story sense. It's definitely an interesting setting choice.
    First, the murder mystery element appeals to me - it's something that I haven't done before (or the Works, for that matter), and the fact that I can legitimately write Frid as not knowing what's going on means that he'll have to work for it. Second, of course, is that it's an unholy mess of the sort that the Works exists to try and clean up; and unlike what little I've found on Umineko so far, that cleaning method won't involve "burn everything to the ground and salt the earth remaining" (seriously, that thing's a mess that makes this look tame, from what I can tell) . . .
    Oh, you're NOT giving him full foreknowledge, because you lack it as well. Very interesting, in that case. As much as I love your SIs' meta-knowledge as a fun "what would I do here", and you do a great job making things go off the rails to avoid it being an entirely overwhelming advantage, having him be almost completely in the dark to start would be fascinating to watch.

    Lastly - and this is the really interesting part - I think a case can be made for its taking place in the Works' actual world.

    Underlying Higurashi Plot Points - again, be warned!
    After all, time looping via mind transfer to parallel worlds? That's Kaleidoscope in action. Hanyu being anything from a demon to a god to an alien? *Looks at F/GO flatly* . . . Gosh, where have we seen that before . . .? And the Hinamizawa Syndrome and related effects sure sound like something Nasu would dream up, either via a rogue magus' or a TYPE's shenanigans. And then, of course, there's the traumatised little girl(s).


    . . . At the very least, it wouldn't take much in the way of adaptation to pull it off. And that being the case, certain characters' reactions to meeting the Works (and vice versa) could be hilarious.
    Higurashi spoiler stuff
    Interesting point on the Kaleidoscope parallels, yeah. I will note the mind transfer/knowledge preservation thing is actually quite limited, so I'd be interested in seeing what you choose to do with that with regard to Godafrid.

  12. #6692
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    Between his knowledge, the time, and Lunar powers, he could probably devastate the timeline normally.
    Precisely - and if I make it too easy, where's the fun in that?


    And I have read/played/watched none of those, sadly.
    I can recommend the first as a series (sadly, Blood Omen 2 is the weakest of the lot); quite aside from the stellar voice acting, it has a very Gothic Shakespearean tone, with elements of high fantasy and Lovecraft thrown in for flavouring. The protagonists are quite good at delivering soliloquies I'd put up there with Hamlet at his best - for example:

    "Given the choice - whether to rule a corrupt and failing empire, or to challenge the Fates for another throw - a better throw - against one's destiny, what was a king to do . . .? But do we ever truly have a choice? One can only match, move by move, the machinations of Fate - and thus defy the tyrannous stars."

    The second, I enjoyed - but only because my expectations weren't high (the Wolverine movies that followed are far superior). Still, if all you want is to see Hugh Jackman as Wolverine, and watch him beat up a bunch of guys as well, it's OK (and the introduction of Ryan Reynolds as Deadpool is hysterical; I'm so glad they never recast, even if they retconned).

    And the third, I've never played either - but it's worth hearing for yourself.

    It's what she says when upgrading your character, by manipulating the souls you've collected.


    They do have some interesting implications that might explain his being a vanilla mortal.
    Quite - or, knowing my brain as I do, they could simply be semi-out-of-nowhere flashbacks brought on by a sudden impulse, daydream or otherwise random train of thought. It's sometimes hard to tell, with the way I think.


    It makes me think of the Seldarine again, but I can't figure out how they'd be there. Hel is also in play, which might be relevant.
    Possibly . . .


    I did mean mostly in the physical sense, not the meta-story sense. It's definitely an interesting setting choice.
    Isn't it? Depressing as all hell, and dangerous, but something different.


    Oh, you're NOT giving him full foreknowledge, because you lack it as well. Very interesting, in that case. As much as I love your SIs' meta-knowledge as a fun "what would I do here", and you do a great job making things go off the rails to avoid it being an entirely overwhelming advantage, having him be almost completely in the dark to start would be fascinating to watch.
    Indeed - depending on how things play out, he may not even realise there's a problem until it's too late . . . And then what happens?


    Higurashi spoiler stuff
    Interesting point on the Kaleidoscope parallels, yeah. I will note the mind transfer/knowledge preservation thing is actually quite limited, so I'd be interested in seeing what you choose to do with that with regard to Godafrid.
    Response to said spoilers, which also has spoilers

    Well, imperfect replications of True Magic are a thing; and it's not like Hanyu is actually human to begin with (anymore, at least, depending on your source) . . . And so am I, kind of, because I'm still deciding how this would work - do it all in one loop, or somehow give him access to the same Groundhog's Day effect? The latter would kind of dilute the tension, depending on how it functioned, but between the Grail and at least one other option I can think of, it's at least possible . . .
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




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    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Fate/Ephemera (Alternate Third Grail War idea)

    Sometime after the Great Holy Grail War








    “From the shards of tattered dreams I rose, unwilling; tossed upon tides of pain which left me
    searingly awake—and more revoltingly, alive . . .

    The harsh voice spoke words, which he understood, and certainly agreed with—but where the voice came from, and how he knew that it had an accent, or whose voice it even was, he didn’t know. He didn’t know a lot of things, when he could actually think about it—the pain made it so hard to focus . . .

    “—offer no certainties; even willingly allowed, such an act—not meant to be possible. It will cause pain, and I cannot—I will endeavour to—”

    Another voice, and more words; it was more solid, somehow, but even more fragmented, at the same time. And there was no context—what was she talking about?

    “When it starts, try to remember the reason you’re doing this—it might help with the pain.”

    “I’ve felt pain before.”

    “Not like this.”


    More voices—male and female this time, but different again, and back to the ephemeral sense of reality the first had carried. It was like they were dreams, or pieces of dreams, but without the whole . . . What was he hearing, and why . . .?

    “It is a rare reward indeed, to be given a—hope you treasure it sincere—”

    As he parsed the new sentence fragments, they brought with them a new sensation—touch. Warmth and cold, combined and unexpected, flowed through his being, bringing with them some notion of the limits and definition of his self (he was not yet aware enough to call it a “body”). The warmth was soft, delicate and brief; the cold somehow invigorating rather than chilling, sending a tingling sensation of energy through him—

    And then, his sense memory latched onto the same sensations, amplified. Cold deep enough to burn and fire hot enough to numb raced through him, wracking his self with conflicting agonies, accompanied by four words in an altogether new voice. Four words, that were spoken in tones of recognition and revelation, in shock and in horror—and above all else, with a simmering fury on the edge of outright eruption.

    “You . . . I KNOW YOU—!

    The pain coalesced into a great wave that hurled him into darkness—and even as he sank into the abyss of oblivion, a final, faint hymn reached his consciousness.


    “For the elements: silver and iron.
    The foundation: stone and the archduke of pacts,
    And for my great master Schweinorg, . . .”








    Fuyuki City
    June 14, 1934









    “For the elements: silver and iron.
    The foundation: stone and the archduke of pacts,
    And in the name of my great master Schweinorg,
    “Close the four gates, come forth from the crown,
    And follow the forked road leading to the kingdom.
    Fill, fill, fill, fill, fill—repeat five times, but when each is filled,
    Destroy it.

    “Heed my words: my will creates your body, and your sword creates my destiny.
    If you heed the Grail’s call, and obey my will and reason, then answer me!

    “I hereby swear that I shall be all the good in the world;
    And that I shall defeat all evil in the world.
    Yet you shall serve from beyond the threshold;
    My invitation shall be your entry,
    And my judgement shall be your dismissal.

    Seventh Heaven, clad in the Great Words of Power,
    From the binding circle: thou, Guardian of the Scales!”








    As Jubstacheit von Einzbern watched, the summoning circle flared alight with prana; but even through its blinding radiance—a somewhat standard effect, from his recollections of the last Grail War—he could still somehow see the space within its confines warp. Involuntarily, the hair stood up on the back of his neck for a moment as a sound he could only define as being reality’s agonised groaning arose, as light and force became meat and bone, wrapped in the comingled stench of paper and ink, leather and blood . . .

    Contrary to expectations, the figure which emerged from the circle appeared human—and his appearance was unimposing, to use the most charitable description possible. Most of his form was hidden beneath a trench coat, as was made popular in the Great War, though unusually made of leather as opposed to gabardine; his skin was pale, his features sharply angular, and his posture bent—almost gnarled, in fact. His hair was wildly dishevelled, but utterly normal in colour. That, combined with the dark circles around his watery blue eyes, made him seem more like an insomniac than a Servant.

    Have we failed again . . .?

    “Identify yourself!” the patriarch barked, before turning to the homunculus that had summoned him and ordering, “Have him identify hims—!

    “Jubstacheit von Einzbern, shut up.

    The voice was soft, both in volume and in timbre, but the air visibly trembled with each breath—and there was more to it as well. The almost slurred cadence of the words made it difficult to focus on them, hinting at meanings just out of his understanding; and those pale, unfocused eyes were suddenly as bright and cold as stars . . .

    The Einzbern patriarch had just enough time to realise the possible ramifications of a newly-summoned Servant who knew his name, before suddenly understanding that perhaps hacking the Grail to allow for the most terrifying Servant possible hadn’t been the wisest of id—








    Having fulfilled the dreams and wishes of countless Ilyasviel and Irisviel fans over a span of decades, the being formerly known as “Godafrid Úa Súilleabháin”—and now, apparently, “Servant Foreigner”—looked at his apparent Master, and wondered what the hell he was going to do now . . .








    Writer's Notes: It's an idea that's been on my mind - not necessarily for the Works (it was just the easiest adaptation right now), but probably for an SI. After all, barring "Moon Cancer" (which they'd never understand) and "Alter Ego" (which wouldn't make any real difference), "Foreigner" is the one "extra Class" the Einzberns haven't summoned in some Fate story . . .
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




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    Same reasons as Galen, Foreigner makes sense. Very interesting timeline for the insertion though, it's more about "what do you plan on doing AFTER this" than the actual content. Since Galen is summoned instead of Angra Mainyu, presumably we don't end up with a tainted Grail (which is VERY INTERESTING given that the Works seemingly has a non-tainted Grail which powered its instantiation, but given that you said "not necessarily for the Works" the entire possible time loop there might not be the plan. Offing Acht is a fairly expected start, though I'm reading that he's actually a body representing a more distributed intelligence (a "terminal", similar to Sieg's body in F/GO), which could make him harder to kill than expected.

    Also you could summon a Beast as the "extra class" and watch the carnage instead, but speculating on the nature of later Beasts is likely to get you overrun by canon within a few years (Legacies of Fate using Vlad before it was cool amuses me, but is also kinda sad. I'm very glad I read it before Apocrypha and before I watched Extra). I feel like Alter Ego could be interesting, but it doesn't actually fit very well, and it's kind of an... abstract? class.

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    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    Same reasons as Galen, Foreigner makes sense. Very interesting timeline for the insertion though, it's more about "what do you plan on doing AFTER this" than the actual content.
    Well, I would hope to make the War itself interesting - but yes, the sequel potential is not to be underestimated . . .

    Just the same, I do think this War would be interesting; I can think of a couple of possible candidates for the Edelfelt sisters' Servants (both of whom have prior experience with Godafrid, if I go the Works route), Zouken is potentially a Master himself, rather than using a catspaw (and sixty years less degraded), and in terms of other Masters . . . Well, there's no reason Darnic's little plan didn't happen (and just failed) in the main timeline, is there?

    (Because come on, fighting Nazis in World War II is practically a requirement.)


    Since Galen is summoned instead of Angra Mainyu, presumably we don't end up with a tainted Grail
    I could adapt this for use with Trinity, if you like . . .?


    (which is VERY INTERESTING given that the Works seemingly has a non-tainted Grail which powered its instantiation, but given that you said "not necessarily for the Works" the entire possible time loop there might not be the plan).
    A fair point - and it would make sense, given the predestination paradox stuff already going on . . . Kind of hard to explain the canon Grail Wars of the Works' past, though - though it might be fun to try.

    Particularly since it might give a means to bring in Luvia, after all . . . I think this applies more to the EXTRA timeline, but I keep having this nagging feeling that Rin and Sakura are supposedly related to the Edelfelts; I believe the younger ("disappeared") Edelfelt sister is meant to be Rin and Sakura's grandmother? I know there's mention of the Tohsaka stealing from the Edelfelts in Prisma Illya, at least . . .

    In any case, I had an idea for an omake where Luvia shows up at Rin's doorstep to officially demand reparations for the bride her family stole from the Edelfelts - cuing Rin to look at Frid and muse "You still need a legal identity, right . . .? Congratulations - you're adopted."

    (. . . Well, either him or Shiki, just for those fireworks. )


    Offing Acht is a fairly expected start, though I'm reading that he's actually a body representing a more distributed intelligence (a "terminal", similar to Sieg's body in F/GO), which could make him harder to kill than expected.
    Which means he's probably going to be fine . . . Damn. Well, at least it was viscerally satisfying . . .



    Also you could summon a Beast as the "extra class" and watch the carnage instead, but speculating on the nature of later Beasts is likely to get you overrun by canon within a few years
    That, and I'd argue that if the Grail struggles with summoning gods, then summoning the sort of thing it took entire pantheons to defeat is far out of its weight class - without the intervention of another Beast (Demon Pillars), or breaking time to make the rules more fluid, or something equally impossible by the standards of modern magecraft.

    (Legacies of Fate using Vlad before it was cool amuses me, but is also kinda sad. I'm very glad I read it before Apocrypha and before I watched Extra).
    I know what you mean. Again, I keep think I should "remaster" that to make it more lore-compliant . . .


    I feel like Alter Ego could be interesting, but it doesn't actually fit very well, and it's kind of an... abstract? class.
    Agreed, which is why they weren't on the list. Barring BB and the Sakura Five (who are very attached to their setting), Alter Egos are more interesting to me as a character study than a narrative device; particularly when the original Heroic Spirit is in play. To someone who doesn't know (or care) who or they are - like most Masters and Servants in a Grail War (beyond the basics, anyway) - it's less meaningful.

    . . . Which is not to say that they don't have a potential place - Elizabeth Bathory appearing to defeat Carmilla, or vice versa (as Liz's wish means she'd no longer exist) would be an interesting story to play throughout a Grail War, I think. (And yes, I think one of those two, in relation to the other, would be more suited to the Alter Ego Class, given their nature and origins.)
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  16. #6696
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kieran View Post
    Well, I would hope to make the War itself interesting - but yes, the sequel potential is not to be underestimated . . .
    Oh, sorry. I meant "after this snippet" rather than "after the story it proposes". The story it proposes has interesting potential, just there's not a lot to comment about the snippet ITSELF.

    Just the same, I do think this War would be interesting; I can think of a couple of possible candidates for the Edelfelt sisters' Servants (both of whom have prior experience with Godafrid, if I go the Works route), Zouken is potentially a Master himself, rather than using a catspaw (and sixty years less degraded), and in terms of other Masters . . . Well, there's no reason Darnic's little plan didn't happen (and just failed) in the main timeline, is there?

    (Because come on, fighting Nazis in World War II is practically a requirement.)
    Oh yeah, those are all possibilities. The Third war isn't one I'm super familiar with, but those are most of the things that are nailed-down about it.

    I could adapt this for use with Trinity, if you like . . .?
    Mis-type on my part, because I was thinking about Legends of Fate/I had mentioned "same reason as Galen". I meant Godafrid there >.<
    A fair point - and it would make sense, given the predestination paradox stuff already going on . . . Kind of hard to explain the canon Grail Wars of the Works' past, though - though it might be fun to try.
    Yeah, the canon wars that already happened make it dicier. Also I remember hearing some predestination stuff involving the Greater Grail, but I don't remember if those have been resolved yet.

    Particularly since it might give a means to bring in Luvia, after all . . . I think this applies more to the EXTRA timeline, but I keep having this nagging feeling that Rin and Sakura are supposedly related to the Edelfelts; I believe the younger ("disappeared") Edelfelt sister is meant to be Rin and Sakura's grandmother? I know there's mention of the Tohsaka stealing from the Edelfelts in Prisma Illya, at least . . .

    In any case, I had an idea for an omake where Luvia shows up at Rin's doorstep to officially demand reparations for the bride her family stole from the Edelfelts - cuing Rin to look at Frid and muse "You still need a legal identity, right . . .? Congratulations - you're adopted."

    (. . . Well, either him or Shiki, just for those fireworks. )
    I thought the "stealing" was more about Gem Magecraft itself, but I might be wrong. Might need to look into that one more, it's an interesting avenue.

    Which means he's probably going to be fine . . . Damn. Well, at least it was viscerally satisfying . . .
    Oh for sure. Unless you want to do it more systematically, or the cosmic horror of being a Foreigner has cascading side effects on the originating intelligence, but I got the impression you just ripped him to shreds physically.
    That, and I'd argue that if the Grail struggles with summoning gods, then summoning the sort of thing it took entire pantheons to defeat is far out of its weight class - without the intervention of another Beast (Demon Pillars), or breaking time to make the rules more fluid, or something equally impossible by the standards of modern magecraft.
    I mean, it matches the entire "summon the forbidden class" concept that justified Avenger really well, but yeah, the power level is more of an issue. The Works intervening at all might be considered "making the rules more fluid", but that seems like a very different story.
    I know what you mean. Again, I keep think I should "remaster" that to make it more lore-compliant . . .
    I think it does an excellent job already when read with the understanding of the time period when it was written. It was written long before we had any depictions of Vlad, and is still quite close to what we ended up getting in a few regards. It's not terribly divergent from canon of what happens when Legend of Dracula takes over, though the conceptual thing about being fictional becomes a bit more complicated.

    Agreed, which is why they weren't on the list. Barring BB and the Sakura Five (who are very attached to their setting), Alter Egos are more interesting to me as a character study than a narrative device; particularly when the original Heroic Spirit is in play. To someone who doesn't know (or care) who or they are - like most Masters and Servants in a Grail War (beyond the basics, anyway) - it's less meaningful.

    . . . Which is not to say that they don't have a potential place - Elizabeth Bathory appearing to defeat Carmilla, or vice versa (as Liz's wish means she'd no longer exist) would be an interesting story to play throughout a Grail War, I think. (And yes, I think one of those two, in relation to the other, would be more suited to the Alter Ego Class, given their nature and origins.)
    I am suddenly realizing that we could have an Elizabeth Seven, given how many alternates she has. Considering the Sakura Five is also a thing, and both are from CCC, this possibility horrifies me.

  17. #6697
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arbitrarity View Post
    Oh, sorry. I meant "after this snippet" rather than "after the story it proposes". The story it proposes has interesting potential, just there's not a lot to comment about the snippet ITSELF.
    Ah. That's fair.


    Oh yeah, those are all possibilities. The Third war isn't one I'm super familiar with, but those are most of the things that are nailed-down about it.
    All the ones I could find, at least. Just enough, I think, to leave me wiggle room to make it interesting . . .


    Mis-type on my part, because I was thinking about Legends of Fate/I had mentioned "same reason as Galen". I meant Godafrid there >.<
    I was teasing - I expected as much. Not that doing a Trinity version of this isn't necessarily a tempting idea . . .


    Yeah, the canon wars that already happened make it dicier. Also I remember hearing some predestination stuff involving the Greater Grail, but I don't remember if those have been resolved yet.
    I'm still (mostly) planning to have Frid's adventures in the Servant Universe be a Noodle Incident, and the story is still on-going; so, not quite yet.

    . . . Although I suppose that a Foreigner's influence on the Grail might allow for things like Bluebeard, Medousa and Medea being summoned later - and all that really has to happen to cause the Fire is the Lesser Grail ending up destroyed . . . Hm.


    I thought the "stealing" was more about Gem Magecraft itself, but I might be wrong. Might need to look into that one more, it's an interesting avenue.
    It is - and you may be right. I can't find hard evidence either way, just the implication . . . As I said, I believe it's true for EXTRA's Rin, at least - and that would explain how the Tohsaka got their hands on Gem Magecraft in the first place, unless the Edelfelts are going after them because they don't dare go after the one who actually gave it to them (Zelretch).

    . . . Knowing magi, that's almost more likely.


    Oh for sure. Unless you want to do it more systematically, or the cosmic horror of being a Foreigner has cascading side effects on the originating intelligence, but I got the impression you just ripped him to shreds physically.
    My concept as to how Foreigner's "absolute destruction" works is by treating them like a drawing (or written description), and physically tearing it out of the "story" (universe). There's literally a huge, gaping hole in reality where they were/are supposed to be; and with enough effort, that absence can extend throughout the entire span of their existence.


    I mean, it matches the entire "summon the forbidden class" concept that justified Avenger really well, but yeah, the power level is more of an issue. The Works intervening at all might be considered "making the rules more fluid", but that seems like a very different story.
    Indeed.


    I think it does an excellent job already when read with the understanding of the time period when it was written. It was written long before we had any depictions of Vlad, and is still quite close to what we ended up getting in a few regards. It's not terribly divergent from canon of what happens when Legend of Dracula takes over, though the conceptual thing about being fictional becomes a bit more complicated.
    Thank you, and true enough.


    I am suddenly realizing that we could have an Elizabeth Seven, given how many alternates she has. Considering the Sakura Five is also a thing, and both are from CCC, this possibility horrifies me.
    Personally, I'd wait for eleven of her, just for the alliteration . . .
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




  18. #6698
    Kamen Rider fan-writer Xamusel's Avatar
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    So, I was trying to find my ideas as I'd written them here in the thread, but I must've screwed up somewhere. I don't know where I put them. I tried searching the thread with an advanced search, but no dice, since it went from beginning of the thread to some point in the year 2014.

    Help?
    Xamusel's Fanfiction Profile

    For those that don't necessarily care if my fics aren't all Type-Moon related.




    Hmm... this is a bit of a surprise these days.

    An archive of my works on the forum that's pretty accurate.




    Note that I don't wish to be seen as an idiot any longer. I can't always promise better works than before, but I can sure as hell try, alright?

  19. #6699
    後継者 Successor RanmaBushiko's Avatar
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    Ugh. Don't you hate that? Kieran and I will both look into it.

    On a better note, you've got two Fate/Anarchy chapters waiting for you to read and catch up on, unless you spotted them already.

    Edit: You started bringing up stuff around chapter 320 when I started writing Godsfall here...

    So after that, I think.
    Last edited by RanmaBushiko; October 13th, 2020 at 10:55 PM.
    I'm starting to suspect that talking with Kieran influences my rolls on Fate/Grand Order Heavily. How else can you explain me talking with him, then rolling for 30, only to get 3 Archer of Shinjuku on my second ten roll?

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  20. #6700
    Master of Hermione Alter Kieran's Avatar
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    Well, you had this, as your last attempt - and this might also help . . .
    “Love will be cruel to who it entices — love will have its sacrifices.”

    — Carmilla Theme




    "Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as Evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against Stupid. That might actually make a difference."

    ―Jim Butcher, Vignette




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