The Grail Works Mission Dossier (Discussion & Ideas)

[Arbitrarity]

It does help that each of them is a distinct character, of course. A lot of their traits overlap - Nerine and Kaede are both shy, Sia and Kaede are both cheerful, etc. - but each girl tends to have different reactions to the same situations. For example, Rin's dating Asa in the anime: Sia and Nerine helped set it up, because they wanted him to know his own feelings; whereas Kaede initially tried to be supportive, but ultimately flipped out . . .

It's more than I usually don't get to contrast character perspectives in that close succession. You usually do a good job distinguishing narration between different character perspectives, but stick to one or maybe two shifts in a chapter. Jumping between 5 is a really neat way to give a quick "this is how it feels to be this character" that I haven't had yet from these snippets. Prior to this, we had a brief dip into Kaede's perspective, a bit of Illya, and some Sion, but none of Sia, Nerine, Asa, or Primula (okay we had some view of future-Primula, but she's very different). It's very compelling.

I will say that writing Primula is hard, from this perspective; she's supposed to have emotions, but not know how to express them, and conveying that from within her own head . . . It wasn't easy.

Not know how to express them, or not know how to identify them? Alexythmia is a thing that is somewhat difficult to describe if you don't have it, but seems like it might be applicable. It seems like a decent base, since she's said to "learn" emotions.

Well, according to what little I've been able to find on Shuffle! Love Rainbow (the last "spinoff" game, with route extensions for Sia, Kaede and Primula), it's possible to use "Devil technology" to give Kikyou her own body - though apparently there's fallout over the King of the Gods having a Devil for a daughter . . .

Other possibilities include something involving Asa. There are a lot of sick people in this setting, my goodness.

Yes. While Nerine is and remains my first choice, always (and I am ecstatic I managed to get my hands on Tick! Tack! for that reason), Sia and her sister are a close second . . .

A bit of context, though, for you to fully appreciate it: until I started watching a playthrough of Sia's story, I had no idea that Rin gave Kikyou her name, at its climax (up until then, she's referred to as "Reverse Sia") - to give her something of her own. The anime referred to her by name, so naturally, the Lunar would, as well . . . Not realising that he'd basically pre-emptively solved the big dramatic issue of the "Sia route" in the process.

(So, yeah - in a way, this is going to be a "New Game+" version of Shuffle!, since as far as those two are concerned . . . )

Take every advantage you can get, I guess. That's a pretty big anime cross-route spoiler though, ouch. I'm reminded of some of the issues in the Fate (2006) adaption.

. . . On the other hand, if Sia's in a better mental position, I appear to have possibly made Nerine's issues a bit worse . . .

It's a good day when Rin can makes errors due to his limited perspective, and you let the world tick along that way. Not that favouring your self-inserts has ever really been a problem for you. Being Kieran is suffering.

[Kieran]

[/I]It's more than I usually don't get to contrast character perspectives in that close succession. You usually do a good job distinguishing narration between different character perspectives,

Thank you.

but stick to one or maybe two shifts in a chapter. Jumping between 5 is a really neat way to give a quick "this is how it feels to be this character" that I haven't had yet from these snippets. Prior to this, we had a brief dip into Kaede's perspective, a bit of Illya, and some Sion, but none of Sia, Nerine, Asa, or Primula (okay we had some view of future-Primula, but she's very different).

Part of that, I must admit, is because as little girls, Sia and Nerine wouldn't have been deep thinkers (well, not Sia, at least) - and yes, future-Primula is very different. Even "end-of-route" Primula is quite the shock, compared to her initial appearance, trust me.

It's very compelling.

Again, thank you - but I don't think I'll be trying that on that big a scale again any time soon (I have learned to never say "never;" after all, this is technically a video game adaptation, which I swore I'd never do again . . . ). It's just a lot of work. I am pleased you enjoyed it, though.

Not know how to express them, or not know how to identify them?

"Express" is the condition named, though it might be the latter.

Alexythmia is a thing that is somewhat difficult to describe if you don't have it, but seems like it might be applicable. It seems like a decent base, since she's said to "learn" emotions.

Something to look into - again, thank you.

Other possibilities include something involving Asa. There are a lot of sick people in this setting, my goodness.

And it's largely all from the same condition: a build-up of magical energy beyond what their bodies are prepared to handle. The game says that's what Nerine's issue was, rather than a "disease" - though the solution was still the same as in the anime. It's even Primula's problem, to a point; her powers are tied to her emotions, and blocking the latter off impedes the former.

. . . And all because a bunch of idiots didn't learn from screwing up the first time.

Take every advantage you can get, I guess. That's a pretty big anime cross-route spoiler though, ouch. I'm reminded of some of the issues in the Fate (2006) adaption.

Yeah - it just struck me as really funny, that I fixed the issue without even knowing about it, just because I didn't know Kikyou wasn't her name (yet). A move worthy of Bakarina herself.

. . . Of course, if and when Rin does discover that, he's going to wonder if he accidentally locked himself into the "Sia route" before the "game" even started . . .

It's a good day when Rin can makes errors due to his limited perspective, and you let the world tick along that way.

Which is as it should be. Nobody is perfect, and no plan ever works exactly right, if it works at all - and nothing exists in a vacuum. The fact that it's Nerine who's been hurt will just make it that much more painful to him.

Not that favouring your self-inserts has ever really been a problem for you. Being Kieran is suffering.

. . . You know, it wasn't until I read my own handle just now that I realised "Rin" is actually not a wholly unreasonable nickname for it? In written form, it's not quite correct, but the way it sounds when most people say it . . .


I also found another reason, of sorts, to do this story, when I found this picture of Rin, Kaede and Sakura in junior high:





Because it might just be me, but I find that uniform design awfully familiar . . .

[Kieran]

Avalon Castle, Phantasmagoria Island (Grail Works, Ltd. Headquarters)
Outside the boundaries of time and space








As matters grew visibly more intimate, to the point that clothes were very obviously about to be removed, Shirou coughed and looked away.

“Ah, we really don’t need to see this, Ilya-chan . . .” he muttered, red-faced.

Truth be told, he wasn’t entirely comfortable with some of what they’d already seen—personal, private matters had a right to remain that way, after all—but given the nature of the situation, he’d been forced to admit it was kind of unavoidable. Even discounting Primula-san’s request to watch, if this whole world really was an eroge visual novel (which, according to Kohaku-san’s shopping trip, it was), then circumstances such as those came with the territory.

He absolutely drew the line at their needing to see the “H-scenes,” howev—

“YES WE DO! WE ABSOLUTELY DO!”

The unexpected explosion from his right had Shirou’s head swiveling around so quickly that it was a wonder he didn’t snap his neck.

“WHAT?!” the redhead demanded, his embarrassed flush returning with a vengeance as he stared in disbelief at Primula.

Nor was he the only one nonplussed by her outburst. Sakura’s eyes looked as wide as his felt, and Rin, while expressionless, matched him in terms of complexion. He was still learning to read their friends from Misaki, but Hisui-san and Akiha-san, at least, looked embarrassed as well—and while her blindfold made it difficult to tell, the sudden stillness of her posture implied even Rider was discomfited. Ilya was harder to read; mostly because she was at an angle to stare at Primula directly, and thus, he couldn’t see her face; but though her body language was visibly tense, it was she who eventually asked the question.

“. . . And why is that, Primula-san?”

“Because we could actually learn the answer to one of the greatest mysteries of the twenty-first and –second centuries!” the amethyst-eyed girl asserted, in a tone of unshakable faith.

“. . . What.”

Shirou didn’t mean to say it like that, necessarily—flat and tonelessly—but the answer was such a shock that he just couldn’t muster up the comprehension to respond with any kind of appropriate emotional resonance. How on earth could a mystery over one hundred years old be solved by . . . Peeping?! What kind of mystery could . . .?

Primula coughed, and began to explain.

“’Nii-chan, is, in essence, half-God—pun not intended,” she added quickly, “while at the same time, more or less biologically Human. Humans are frailer than Gods or Devils—this isn’t an insult, it’s simply fact: lacking magic to strengthen them, they neither live as long, nor heal as well as Gods or Devils do. At the same time, there are reasons that Sia and Nerine were only children, despite the King of the Gods having three wives, and the King of the Devils being a perverted lecher; because they live longer, Gods and Devils simply aren’t as fertile as Humans are.

“Despite all that being true,” Primula concluded, “and the various issues involved in their differing biologies, he managed to not only induce, but convince her to go through with, a dozen pregnancies—and arguments continue to this day as to HOW!”

A stunned silence fell over the group, with the various females in the room either blushing or blanching as that statement sunk in, depending on their personal interpretations and inclinations.

Not seeming to notice the reactions in the room, Primula continued, listing off possibilities, “Some quirk of biology making for extreme compatibility, or innate magical power—or just her being unable to say ‘no,’ for reasons that range from ‘unhealthy submissiveness’ to outright mind control; or the sex just being that good . . . People from all walks of life have debating it for at least the last sixty years, with no definitive answer . . .”

She sighed, apparently oblivious to the increasing pallor (or redness) of various faces.

When Shirou finally found his voice, some moments later, he croaked. “. . . Ah, well—wouldn’t you know . . .?” he offered weakly.

An incongruously grim expression settled on Primula’s face.

“‘A lady is entitled to her secrets,’” she muttered. “Even when they all finally stopped considering me 'too young to hear things of that nature,' it was all she’d ever say about it—and nobody could get her to talk!

“The smug, lucky bitch . . .” she added under her breath.

Quick glances were exchanged around the room by the various girls—and while Shirou didn’t quite understand the context of them, he had an intuition of sudden danger.

“. . . W – well,” Rin offered, “if it’s the interests of history and the spirit of scientific inquiry, I suppose we could—”

That was all Shirou needed to hear before fleeing the room—whatever came next, he wanted to be nowhere near the vicinity. In fact, the further away he could get the better.

I wonder if Issei needs help up at the Temple . . . ?

[Arbitrarity]

I am remembering the horror that is Thousandfold Courtesan Calculations, except that's an Alchemical charm. Lunars have... Terrifying Lust Infliction? Or some creative use of Scorpion and Toad Mastery. I suppose the many, many instances of Ox-Body Technique might prove most relevant, though, given all that "Humans are frailer". Solars have all the good stuff, with Rose-Lipped Seduction Style and so on.
Shirou's spider-sense is wise. Shiki may also be in danger.

[Kieran]

I am remembering the horror that is Thousandfold Courtesan Calculations, except that's an Alchemical charm. Lunars have... Terrifying Lust Infliction? Or some creative use of Scorpion and Toad Mastery. I suppose the many, many instances of Ox-Body Technique might prove most relevant, though, given all that "Humans are frailer". Solars have all the good stuff, with Rose-Lipped Seduction Style and so on.

Truthfully, I was looking at the fact that Lunars can breed races of Beastmen by coupling with animals, or while in animal form - it implies a certain level of innate compatibility, in addition to the enhanced virility of Exalts as a whole. Add the rest of those, though . . .

(Incidentally, Rin's answer to questions of that nature was always, "You seen my wife, haven't you?" )

Shirou's spider-sense is wise. Shiki may also be in danger.

He's out on a date with Arc - he's already in it.

[Xamusel]

What else is going on in the Shuffle-verse, then?

[Kieran]

What else is going on in the Shuffle-verse, then?

A number of things, potentially - was there something specific you wanted to see, or know about?

[Xamusel]

In this AU? I think I want to know what's going on with Rin!Frid!Kurai.

[Kieran]

In this AU? I think I want to know what's going on with Rin!Frid!Kurai.

If I'm understanding you correctly (and please, inform me if I'm not; I'm currently caffeine-deprived), then in-story, Exalts are noted for producing comparatively powerful offspring - not to their parent's level, but more than mortal. And Lunars, as I said, are even more adaptable when it comes to their choice of partners, being able to create races of beastmen - also, the girls of Shuffle! are very pretty.

. . . Out-of-universe, Shuffle! is an H-game, like Tsukihime or Fate; while the playthrough I'm watching censors that, the scenes in Tick! Tack! are both fairly frequent (about four per route, so far - two of them mandatory), and reasonably involved. I was trying to decide how to handle that, as well as how the Works would handle that (some of the girls strike me as closet voyeurs, but Shirou doesn't), and thought of this for amusement. The fact that everything I said about Human versus God or Demon biology is supported by the material (if not necessarily canon) was helpful in that regard.

For the record, Gods and Demons allegedly have an average life span of 120 years to a human's 80 - which means both Nerine and Sia die young, as of Episode 2's canon. Asa, Nerine and Sia are only children as of the first game; in fact, Kareha is the only God or Devil ever seen with a sibling. Kikyou, unfortunately, doesn't count (as she did die), and the younger brother who sired the current King of the Gods in Episode 2 was born much later, apparently - and which also means that like Nerine, Sia died childless.

(. . . Really, the only one of any of the original heroines in Episode 2 confirmed to have offspring is Primula; which doesn't count as A) Limes was apparently not born conventionally, as B) homunculi are allegedly sterile . . . )

In any case, if that doesn't answer your question, please let me know.

[Xamusel]

While the answer was worthwhile, the understanding is off. I was talking about how he's going to cope with things by the time he gets back home, at least to the Grail Works LTD office.

...also, am I the only one hoping that he can hook up with Aozaki Takara, even if it's so unlikely at this point?

[Kieran]

While the answer was worthwhile, the understanding is off. I was talking about how he's going to cope with things by the time he gets back home, at least to the Grail Works LTD office.

Ah. That is an interesting question, isn't it?

...also, am I the only one hoping that he can hook up with Aozaki Takara, even if it's so unlikely at this point?

Well, I did point out that picture . . .

[Xamusel]

True... on both counts.

Now, why am I thinking of messing with my concept for the Grail Works LTD, again? Oh, wait, it's because I had an idea for how to best get it to work... ugh. Sometimes, I need to learn not to listen to random ideas, y'know?

[Kieran]

Speaking of "random ideas" . . .

It occurred to me this morning - what would Caren Ortensia be like if she was part of a different church (as that's the main argument against her joining the Works)? For example, the Healing Church . . .?

Given Caren's normal afflictions, the idea of how they might translate . . . Well, intrigues me.

[Xamusel]

Well... here's hoping that she doesn't have Kirei's personality traits.

Anyway, I need to get an idea intact, so that I can say that I can write for the Grail Works. Now, let's see... what concept should I go with, then?

[Kieran]

I don't know how I forgot about this, but . . .

Well... here's hoping that she doesn't have Kirei's personality traits.

Would she be Caren if she didn't . . .? Personally, I just thought the idea of her being associated with a Church that worshipped Great (Old) Ones and practised bloodletting as a form of ministration might actually result in a worse-than-canon version of her - or at least, an interestingly twisted one.

Anyway, I need to get an idea intact, so that I can say that I can write for the Grail Works. Now, let's see... what concept should I go with, then?

Assuming that's not rhetorical . . . Well, you've mentioned your ideas before, and gotten opinions. Unless you have something new, just go back over them and pick one.



. . . On my own front - regrettably, I have just been too busy (and am presently too exhausted) to post anything this week. I have a couple of days off coming; I'll try to have something then. Since I have the time, however, a question? When this particular tale is done (hopefully soon . . . ish), I obviously have other ideas, but there will be loose threads to follow up on.

On that note, would you rather I have Frid go looking for the (still-lost) Sword of Atli, or for a cure for Laeticia - and with whom?

[Arbitrarity]

. . . On my own front - regrettably, I have just been too busy (and am presently too exhausted) to post anything this week. I have a couple of days off coming; I'll try to have something then. Since I have the time, however, a question? When this particular tale is done (hopefully soon . . . ish), I obviously have other ideas, but there will be loose threads to follow up on.

On that note, would you rather I have Frid go looking for the (still-lost) Sword of Atli, or for a cure for Laeticia - and with whom?

Of those two options... I feel like he might be more motivated by curing Laeticia, unless he has knowledge that the Sword of Atli is specifically very dangerous or otherwise important (Given chapter 24, I think that is the case). The specific person he would be travelling with... hm. Let's list some people and their merits/demerits:

The reruns:

• Erik: We literally just did this, I think Frid wants to run away as far as possible.
• XX: Somewhat similar, but more that she's not likely to be available without resummoning.

The improbable:

• Akiha: Can't think of a good reason for this one.
• Hisui: Ditto.
• Arceuid: Absurdly overpowered under some circumstances. Don't have a good reason for this.
• Sakura/Rider: Uh, Heaven's Feel movie is released? I can't really think of a good reason for this one.

The somewhat-reasonable:

• Kohaku: Has expertise with wacky medicines/poisons. Somewhat odd pairing.
• Shiki: Has expertise with killing poisons. On the run from a harem.
• Shirou: Has expertise with identifying swords. Also on the run from a harem.
• Saber: Has expertise with being a dragon. Also has a very reasonable chip in her shoulder.
• Rin: Has expertise with being ordered around by Zelretch on weird interdimensional missions. Also thirsty for gem funds.

This leans a bit towards the Fate cast, which makes sense, I guess. If you're going on a quest to find a sword, bringing Shirou and/or Saber would be amusing, if possibly unwise. If you're curing Laeticia, Shiki and/or Kohaku seem relevant to some degree. I think it mostly depends on who we want Godafrid to actually develop relationships with. I feel like building on the relationship between Godafrid and Shirou would be potentially interesting. Reconciling or watching the situation with Saber get worse are both amusing options.
I feel like Tsukihime tends to get somewhat less content these days, and the characters often end up somewhat as self-parody (see i.e. Magical Amber vs the Mushroom Kingdom) so I'm unsure about those choices.

Other options of questionable canonicity:

• Astrea: Might be interested in helping Laeticia as another Ruler host.
• Fiore: Seems to have been ruled out already, but still possibly an option.
• Shuffle! characters?: Seems more improbable again, unless those are made canon.
• BB: You thought you were going to go on a mission with a girl from the Works, but it was ME! BB!
• Caren: Like BB but more understatedly sadistic.

[Xamusel]

Would she be Caren if she didn't . . .? Personally, I just thought the idea of her being associated with a Church that worshipped Great (Old) Ones and practised bloodletting as a form of ministration might actually result in a worse-than-canon version of her - or at least, an interestingly twisted one.

You raise a good point... and I apologize for the delay, man. I was doing stuff on my end.

Assuming that's not rhetorical . . . Well, you've mentioned your ideas before, and gotten opinions. Unless you have something new, just go back over them and pick one.

Therein lies the problem. I don't remember all the ideas I mentioned before, and I feel that I need to come up with a better idea, one that's unlikely to go too overpowered and be without problems on the character's end.

I mean, sure, I want to be able to tell the Reign of Winter story as well. However, I'm unsure where to take the concept afterwards, or where I'm going with the story by that point. You know what I mean?

. . . On my own front - regrettably, I have just been too busy (and am presently too exhausted) to post anything this week. I have a couple of days off coming; I'll try to have something then. Since I have the time, however, a question? When this particular tale is done (hopefully soon . . . ish), I obviously have other ideas, but there will be loose threads to follow up on.

On that note, would you rather I have Frid go looking for the (still-lost) Sword of Atli, or for a cure for Laeticia - and with whom?

Personally? I wonder what's the purpose of the Sword of Atli in this case. Until I know more, I'll have to abstain from the vote, Kieran.

[Kieran]

Of those two options... I feel like he might be more motivated by curing Laeticia, unless he has knowledge that the Sword of Atli is specifically very dangerous or otherwise important (Given chapter 24, I think that is the case).

As Frid himself stated, it can be, in the wrong hands - at the absolute least, it's a literally indestructible sword that can cut quite a bit deeper than a mundane blade of its type. That alone would make it valuable - but in the hands of someone with the right qualifications, it can do quite a bit more . . .

Still, you are likely correct that the latter would be more immediately compelling, absent a specifically threatening situation.

The specific person he would be travelling with... hm. Let's list some people and their merits/demerits:

The reruns:

[*]Erik: We literally just did this, I think Frid wants to run away as far as possible.

You are so correct.

[*]XX: Somewhat similar, but more that she's not likely to be available without resummoning.

Also true. And while summoning a Servant to accompany him is an option - so if there's a specific one you think he'd pair well - or at least amusingly) with, do speak up - the Works' personnel is probably a better place to start . . .

The improbable:

[*]Akiha: Can't think of a good reason for this one. [*]Hisui: Ditto. [*]Arcueid: Absurdly overpowered under some circumstances. Don't have a good reason for this. [*]Sakura/Rider: Uh, Heaven's Feel movie is released? I can't really think of a good reason for this one.

For this sort of thing, I will accept "I'd like to see how Frid handles dealing with them," and work out the in-story motivation myself . . .

Of the list, Hisui's the only one who wouldn't really worry him, beyond fearing what Kohaku might do if she got hurt.

The somewhat-reasonable:

[*]Kohaku: Has expertise with wacky medicines/poisons. Somewhat odd pairing.

And terrifying, for him.

[*]Shiki: Has expertise with killing poisons. On the run from a harem.

Very true - I'm unsure if he could handle Hydra venom, but it is a point. Ryogi Shiki would be better, if they could reach her, but . . . Hm.

[*]Shirou: Has expertise with identifying swords. Also on the run from a harem.

Handy if I go for the Sword - also has the potential of introducing him to Altera . . .

[*]Saber: Has expertise with being a dragon. Also has a very reasonable chip in her shoulder.

Yup. Though as mentioned, she's mellowed a little bit.

[*]Rin: Has expertise with being ordered around by Zelretch on weird interdimensional missions. Also thirsty for gem funds.

This is true . . .

This leans a bit towards the Fate cast, which makes sense, I guess. If you're going on a quest to find a sword, bringing Shirou and/or Saber would be amusing, if possibly unwise. If you're curing Laeticia, Shiki and/or Kohaku seem relevant to some degree. I think it mostly depends on who we want Godafrid to actually develop relationships with.

Yes, which is part of why I'm asking.

I feel like building on the relationship between Godafrid and Shirou would be potentially interesting. Reconciling or watching the situation with Saber get worse are both amusing options.

All right.

I feel like Tsukihime tends to get somewhat less content these days, and the characters often end up somewhat as self-parody (see i.e. Magical Amber vs the Mushroom Kingdom) so I'm unsure about those choices.

This is true, sadly; on the other hand, what better reason to try and put them in the spotlight?

Other options of questionable canonicity:

[*]Astraea: Might be interested in helping Laeticia as another Ruler host.

Possibly - though that might lead to her needing to possess the local Luvia to act, or something. Certainly, Sakura Edelfelt won't be happy about it if her sister goes gallivanting . . .

[*]Fiore: Seems to have been ruled out already, but still possibly an option.

And a hotly-debated one, I assure you.

[*]Shuffle! characters?: Seems more improbable again, unless those are made canon.

Likely - though I won't rule them out as a future mission, either. Those snippets were too much fun.

[*]BB: You thought you were going to go on a mission with a girl from the Works, but it was ME! BB!

Arranging that would be complicated - but if that's what you really want to see, then I'll give it a shot . . .

[*]Caren: Like BB but more understatedly sadistic.

Basically, yes - and thus, the same response applies.

Therein lies the problem. I don't remember all the ideas I mentioned before, and I feel that I need to come up with a better idea, one that's unlikely to go too overpowered and be without problems on the character's end.

Well, most of your ideas, I presume, are here - or linked to it. Just backtrack a few pages, or run a search, and you ought to be able to find them.

I mean, sure, I want to be able to tell the Reign of Winter story as well. However, I'm unsure where to take the concept afterwards, or where I'm going with the story by that point. You know what I mean?

I do. But until you decide on something, I can't really help you.

Personally? I wonder what's the purpose of the Sword of Atli in this case. Until I know more, I'll have to abstain from the vote, Kieran.

Mostly, "plot device."

[Arbitrarity]

As Frid himself stated, it can be, in the wrong hands - at the absolute least, it's a literally indestructible sword that can cut quite a bit deeper than a mundane blade of its type. That alone would make it valuable - but in the hands of someone with the right qualifications, it can do quite a bit more . . .

Still, you are likely correct that the latter would be more immediately compelling, absent a specifically threatening situation.

Lots of ways to develop in either direction, but I feel like going Laeticia with Tsukihime characters would be an interesting contrast.

For this sort of thing, I will accept "I'd like to see how Frid handles dealing with them," and work out the in-story motivation myself . . .

Of the list, Hisui's the only one who wouldn't really worry him, beyond fearing what Kohaku might do if she got hurt.

Akiha spooks me, and I'm shocked she doesn't spook him. I'd kind of like to see Arceuid, just because I remember waaaay back in Legacies of Fate that you had some interesting interactions with her. Also, Lunar Exalted, White Moon Princess, might be amusing. I'd also like to see Sakura/Rider, but I'm not really sure why.

And terrifying, for him.

She does do that, yes. Seems like the sort of thing he would like to avoid at all costs.

Very true - I'm unsure if he could handle Hydra venom, but it is a point. Ryogi Shiki would be better, if they could reach her, but . . . Hm.

I already brought that one up as a "fast solution", similar to summoning Medea Lily, but if we're going on an adventure, that works instead. I don't think I've seen much Godafrid/Shiki interaction, but he's also the least colorful of the Tsukihime cast. I mostly referenced this so I could chain "has expertise with" repeatedly.

Handy if I go for the Sword - also has the potential of introducing him to Altera . . .

Is this... bad civilization?

Yup. Though as mentioned, she's mellowed a little bit.

And I wouldn't mind seeing it more directly.

This is true . . .

Romcom hijinks ensue?

This is true, sadly; on the other hand, what better reason to try and put them in the spotlight?
Yes, which is part of why I'm asking.

I'm bad at value judgments/imagination-related things, so I'm essentially just writing out the obvious options and weighing which ones make sense to me. This is not conducive to choosing on basis of "developing relationships" often, because I only really work with what I know, which is usually already somewhat-developed relationships. The issue is that this leads to favouring already-developed characters more.

Possibly - though that might lead to her needing to possess the local Luvia to act, or something. Certainly, Sakura Edelfelt won't be happy about it if her sister goes gallivanting . . .

And a hotly-debated one, I assure you.

Basically everything in that list was me just thinking "outside the box" about possible options. Astrea was the most plausible, and was already a stretch.

Arranging that would be complicated - but if that's what you really want to see, then I'll give it a shot . . .

I was just referencing this Omake and am not actually terribly invested in it as a concept.

[Kieran]

Lots of ways to develop in either direction, but I feel like going Laeticia with Tsukihime characters would be an interesting contrast.

And I don't disagree; that's even leaving aside the issue of their deserving more time in the spotlight. Hm . . .

Akiha spooks me, and I'm shocked she doesn't spook him.

She is (mostly) a 16-year-old girl, and while Frid has is sympathetic to her, he's also not an Akiha fanboy - so she has less of a psychological impact, beyond that of any pretty girl. By contrast, to his mind, Hisui's a shy little sweetheart, Kohaku is fucking dangerous, and Arcueid is the reason he got sold on Tsukihime and TYPE-MOON in the first place . . .

I'd kind of like to see Arceuid, just because I remember waaaay back in Legacies of Fate that you had some interesting interactions with her. Also, Lunar Exalted, White Moon Princess, might be amusing.

This is true. I'm now picturing a subconscious battle between the element of the Crimson Moon in Arc and the aspect of Luna in Frid; as one is the Type of the Moon, the other its equivalent to Gaia . . .

I'd also like to see Sakura/Rider, but I'm not really sure why.

Possibly because she's the major Fate character who hasn't voiced a real opinion on him yet?

She does do that, yes. Seems like the sort of thing he would like to avoid at all costs.

YES! . . . Which is, of course, why forcing them together would be funny . . .

I already brought that one up as a "fast solution", similar to summoning Medea Lily, but if we're going on an adventure, that works instead. I don't think I've seen much Godafrid/Shiki interaction, but he's also the least colorful of the Tsukihime cast. I mostly referenced this so I could chain "has expertise with" repeatedly.

*Nods* Fair. Although, as stated way back in "Legacies of Fate," the anime's version of Shiki is my hero, so it might be interesting . . . Especially considering some of the places they could end up.

Is this... bad civilization?

Adding Altera to Shirou's harem . . .? You tell me.

. . . In all honesty, I would love to add Altera to the Works - let's face it, if she could be safely removed, the Moon Cell would help them do it - but she doesn't want to fight, and combat power would be the primary asset she brings to the table; it hardly seems fair. Short of working out a set of shenanigans to let her manifest as Altera the San(ta), or some crossover/fusion variant, I'm at a loss to figure out how to do it that would let her live peacefully, yet still let her bring something to the Works' repertoire.

And I wouldn't mind seeing it more directly.

That's fair.

Romcom hijinks ensue?

. . . Would you want to see Frid and Rin pair off . . .? (Admittedly, I'm partial to Ereshkigal, but that's not the same thing, is it?)

I'm bad at value judgments/imagination-related things, so I'm essentially just writing out the obvious options and weighing which ones make sense to me. This is not conducive to choosing on basis of "developing relationships" often, because I only really work with what I know, which is usually already somewhat-developed relationships. The issue is that this leads to favouring already-developed characters more.

Noted, and logical, so I appreciate it - but I'm also interested in what you want to see. Even oddball whims; done right, they might develop into something amazing.

. . . For example, all we know of XX's slip is that he's involved (somehow) with someone whose name or title begins with "La-". Based on that, the obvious conclusions are "Lancer" (though which one could involve some genuinely bizarre circumstances), "Laeticia" (a bit odd, given her normality, but potentially plausible), or even "Lakshmibai." The latter would be a really interesting story, as she's nowhere near the radar at the moment. Mechanically, she's even trickier - according to her profile, she's only as powerful as she is in F/GO due to the Lostbelt, and a lot of her stats don't have much room to downgrade . . .

Basically everything in that list was me just thinking "outside the box" about possible options. Astrea was the most plausible, and was already a stretch.

Yes, sadly - I like Astraea, and she sadly has fewer issues in joining the Works than Luvia proper (which is ludicrous, when you think about it). But working out how to arrange it would be an effort.

I was just referencing this Omake and am not actually terribly invested in it as a concept.

Well, that's a bit of a relief - does the same apply to Caren?