Apparently I did, yeah. Oh well, point still stands.Originally Posted by MarqFJA87
Apparently I did, yeah. Oh well, point still stands.
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It literally wasn't a joke.
The Hassans and Gilles are definitly wraiths but they still get Noble Phantasms. I don't know what Medea and Medusa are but we know they aren't Heroic Spirits. I would say EMIYA but now Nasu is all like "he doesn't have a Noble Phantasm".
Araya, what do you seek?
「アラヤ、何を求める」
------True wisdom.「――――真の叡智を」
Araya, where do you seek it?「アラヤ、何処に求める」
Only within myself.「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
Araya, what is your favorite color?「アラヤ、好きな色は？」
Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ！」
You forgot how Herakles/Hercules is also a Wraith, because lolNasu.
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No, Herakles is a true Heroic Spirit. If he were a wraith there wouldn't be any debate over whether he was alive or not because you have to be alive at some point to become a Wraith.
Araya, what do you seek?
「アラヤ、何を求める」
------True wisdom.「――――真の叡智を」
Araya, where do you seek it?「アラヤ、何処に求める」
Only within myself.「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
Araya, what is your favorite color?「アラヤ、好きな色は？」
Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ！」
Are you confusing being fictional with being a wraith?
They're the same thing, aren't they? Wraith and fictional here both mean: never really existed.
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No, Wraiths existed. They just hung around as spirits after death instead of recycling like normal people or going to the Throne like real heroes.
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No. Wraiths definitely existed. Nameless farmer guy was a dude, Giles murdered all the little girls and boys and Hassan was baked on his mountain.
See my edit on the subject.
Araya, what do you seek?
「アラヤ、何を求める」
------True wisdom.「――――真の叡智を」
Araya, where do you seek it?「アラヤ、何処に求める」
Only within myself.「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
Araya, what is your favorite color?「アラヤ、好きな色は？」
Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ！」
Was Medea a wraith? I thought she was just a non-good HS.
A wraith is just a wraith. If anything it's the opposite. All the Hassans existed (CM3 even notes them specifically as such!), and they are wraiths. Sasaki Kojirou never existed, but the nameless swallow killing farmer did, and he is a wraith (playing the role of Sasaki Kojirou).
^^
Medea is mentioned as something that wouldn't make it through if Angra wasn't using the Holy Grail as a jacuzzi so that pretty much means she isn't a Heroic Spirit. Or at least I think that was mentioned. Maybe it's just Rider.
Araya, what do you seek?
「アラヤ、何を求める」
------True wisdom.「――――真の叡智を」
Araya, where do you seek it?「アラヤ、何処に求める」
Only within myself.「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
Araya, what is your favorite color?「アラヤ、好きな色は？」
Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ！」
But I thought it was more that before the corruption thing it was that the Grail could only summon good HS or something to that degree, any of the more questionable ones like Medea were not available.
But Medusa is chaotic good.
She's an Anti-Hero, which I think isn't the same as being a Wraith. I think the distinction between Anti-Heroes and true Heroic Spirits is based on morality, while the distinction between Wraiths and true Heroic Spirits is based on individual identity. It gets confusing when you try to figure out how this relates to things like the D&D alignments and the surprisingly breakable limits of who can be summoned as an Assassin. For instance, Medusa is exactly the sort of person you'd expect to be an Anti-Hero, since she's a villain in her own legend (even though she wasn't actually a bad person) but she's Chaotic Good.
Last edited by MetallicMask; April 18th, 2013 at 07:24 PM.
So is Gilgamesh, but we don't see even a sliver of that in /SN or /Zero.
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Except his entire character arc.
Doesn't matter, Saber says she isn't a Hero so that is that. Ex Divine Spirit that became a monster designed to keep the population of Heroes down doesn't really fit any heroic qualities.
You can be something other then a Wraith and not be a Heroic Spirit, since that would be anything not in the Throne of Heroes such as many Divine Spirits and every normal human that gets reincarnated. Now I'm trying to remember if Anti Heroes (except there is only one Anti Hero and that is Angra Mainyu, everyone else is only a "kinda") are there or not.
Araya, what do you seek?
「アラヤ、何を求める」
------True wisdom.「――――真の叡智を」
Araya, where do you seek it?「アラヤ、何処に求める」
Only within myself.「――――ただ、己が内にのみ」
Araya, what is your favorite color?「アラヤ、好きな色は？」
Blue. No, ora-- Auuuuuuuugh!「青、いや、オレンジイイイイイアアアっ！」
Isn't that only in CCC?
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