Create your own Modern Fiction Servants

[Ergast]

I would, provided it wasn't explained why. Unless it's super important to have Kintoki/Tamamo/Lu Bu/whoever in your story, why bother breaking them? Like, I can abide if a rule is broken, you just have to explain it later in the war, and provided it actually adds something to the story.

Just like you'd have to explain if Lancer was replaced by Frosty the Snowman or something like that.

Breaking rules because because = bad, I agree

Breaking an almost unknown rule because you wanted to summon a certain eastern HS because it would add to the story and you probably wouldn't even know that said rule even existed? My answer would be among the lines of "Rule? What rule?"

[You]

It's a rule stated on three separate occasions, I wouldn't call it almost unknown.

[Megas]

Breaking an almost unknown rule because you wanted to summon a certain eastern HS because it would add to the story and you probably wouldn't even know that said rule even existed? My answer would be among the lines of "Rule? What rule?"

It's fine if you break the rule for the sake of plot, but if you know of the rule, and you're utilizing the setting, you might as well factor in a way to explain a reason why the rule is broken in story other than "because it was inconvenient".

[machiavellianFictionist]

Well, I've pretty much already decided on Celtchar, since the personality I worked out with some friends for him works great with his Master's and fits his background.

[Magus]

I had forgotten about the "Fuyuki Grail doesn't summon Eastern Heroic Spirits" rule, but I now recall hearing about it before somewhere. What's the in-universe reason for that again? I haven't read the VNs, and most of my exposure to the series is through the Fate/Stay Night anime, Fate/Zero, Fate/Extra (it certainly may have been touched upon here), and fan fiction. That rule certainly wasn't at the front of my mind and strikes me as the sort of mistake I could have easily (although entirely in good faith) made in writing.

[Sesto]

It's a rule stated on three separate occasions, I wouldn't call it almost unknown.

Where is the third mention? (besides Fate/Zero material and CM III)

Anyway, I agree that breaking rules just because you can is a poor practice. But something as minuscule as this "western only" Servant rule isn't that big of a deal, imo. Especially when I don't think it is mentioned in-universe anywhere. Since it is so irrelevant, doing something simple like having the Master use a catalyst that has direct and very important ties to a specific eastern Heroic Spirit would suffice, I think.

[Rafflesiac]

What's the in-universe reason for that again?

The Holy Grail is an inherently Western concept.

Therefore, it is incompatible with Eastern Servants.

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4K get!

[Siriel]

The Holy Grail is a Western concept so Eastern heroes don't seek it.

It's only spelled out in interviews though.

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Where is the third mention? (besides Fate/Zero material and CM III)

Nasu confirming it doesn't apply to Extra.

[Magus]

Breaking rules for their own sake is bad, yes. Though many stories can get away with one "acceptable break from reality" / deviation from the established mechanics of a setting, provided that it is explicitly AU, the change is not too implausible compared to the rest of the setting (unless its meant as a parody), and allows the author to do something interesting with the story.

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The Holy Grail is a Western concept so Eastern heroes don't seek it.

It's only spelled out in interviews though.

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Nasu confirming it doesn't apply to Extra.

Ah, thanks for the clarification. Since I had been thinking the Grail wouldn't care about who it summons from the throne.

Now guys like Gilgamesh would seem to stretch the notion of "western" heroes to me (although at least he's not far east), but at least he's claimed all the treasures of the world as his own and would thus seem drawn to the Grail anyways.

[Kat]

Now guys like Gilgamesh would seem to stretch the notion of "western" heroes to me (although at least he's not far east), but at least he's claimed all the treasures of the world as his own and would thus seem drawn to the Grail anyways.

He is Western undoubtedly because from his Epic Abrahamic religions heavily cribbed. Also, for Nasu Western is also Indoeuropean, hence Karna counts too.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

I should write an Eastern-only war and then include Herk because of how his legend migrated East.

[Kat]

Include Marco Polo too as Rider or some shit (and make him like Kojiro since there are doubts if Marco Polo was ever to China).

[Magus]

He is Western undoubtedly because from his Epic Abrahamic religions heavily cribbed. Also, for Nasu Western is also Indoeuropean, hence Karna counts too.

Ah, that's right, of course.

[machiavellianFictionist]

Right, I forgot about India! Sadly, most legendary indian anythings are some sort of god. .-. Marco Polo as a Servant sounds like a great idea, but I think he'd be more of a Caster. Under a similar logic that makes William Shakespeare a Caster.

[Der Ritter]

Makes you wonder if the Grail won't summon Native/Central American heroes.

[Sesto]

Posted this a while back, but in the Crossover thread. Though my main intention isn't to show it -- I'm actually curious on what formatting you guys think looks better, specifically for the Personal Skills. Both stat sheets are exactly the same otherwise.

Spoiler:

Class: Ruler
Alias: Zero
Sex: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Strength: E
Endurance: E
Agility: D
Prana: C
Luck: A+
Noble Phantasm: A

Riding: C+
The expertise to ride animals and vehicles. Most vehicles can be handled with average skill, but certain vehicles can be handled with above average skill. Cannot ride the likes of Phantasm Races such as Monstrous Beasts.

Charisma: A
The natural talent to command an army. Increases the ability of allies during group battles. Can be said to have achieved the greatest level of popularity as a human being.

Military Tactics: B
The tactical knowledge used not for one-on-one combat situations, but for battles where many are mobilized.

Subversive Activities: A
The talent to reduce the enemy forces in the preliminary stages, before going into battle. An expert of traps. However, the higher is the ranking of this Skill, the more one's spiritual status as a hero declines. It is possible to disable nearly 60% of the total military force before the enemy advances.

Noble Phantasms

Man of Miracles: The Saviour of the World
Anti-Unit, Anti-Army
Rank: A+
Throughout his life, Zero was regarded as a man who could make the impossible, possible. The miracles he would perform seemed to defy all logic and reason, and eventually many of his followers began to believe that no goal was unreachable; that no victory was unobtainable. And when Zero finally made his triumphant return to slay the Demon Emperor Lelouch, his status as a Man of Miracles and a genuine Saviour of the World was solidified for the rest of history.
As a result of being seen as a Man of Miracles, Zero continues to be able to perform the same unimaginable feats. He is able to escape from any situation, turn the tide of battle even if there appears to be no chance at victory, and can avoid death almost as if Alaya itself is aiding him. However, each feat he performs requires a luck check.
Near the end of his life, it was rumoured that Zero possessed a form of Mystic Eyes known as “Geass”. It is unknown whether or not these rumours were true.

Shinkirō: Shield of the Black Knights
Anti-Army
Rank: A
A powerful type of humanoid war machine called a “Knightmare”. It is capable of flight, and can also transform into a jet fighter to move at extreme speeds.
It possesses an “Absolute Defense System” that is capable of projecting extremely powerful defensive shields that can block incoming attacks. These shields are not automated; they require the intellect of the pilot to calculate the trajectories of the attacks and move the shields accordingly.
It also possesses a “Diffusion Structure Phase Transition Cannon”, a powerful weapon that can be used to fire multiple pinpoint lasers or a single concentrated attack. To utilize it, Shinkirō’s shields must be deactivated first.
Although it was eventually stolen by the Demon Emperor Lelouch and later destroyed, during Zero’s time as the leader of The Black Knights, it was used continuously as a key to victory.

Spoiler:

Class: Ruler
Alias: Zero
Sex: Male
Alignment: Chaotic Good
Strength: E
Endurance: E
Agility: D
Prana: C
Luck: A+
Noble Phantasm: A

Riding: The expertise to ride animals and vehicles.

(C+): Most vehicles can be handled with average skill, but certain vehicles can be handled with above average skill. Cannot ride the likes of Phantasm Races such as Monstrous Beasts.

Charisma: The natural talent to command an army. Increases the ability of allies during group battles.

(A): As one who became known as the saviour of the world, Zero can be said to have achieved the greatest level of popularity as a human being.

Military Tactics: The tactical knowledge used not for one-on-one combat situations, but for battles where many are mobilized.

(B): Bonus modifiers are provided during use of one's own Anti-Army Noble Phantasm or when dealing against an enemy Anti-Army Noble Phantasm.

Subversive Activities: The talent to reduce the enemy forces in the preliminary stages, before going into battle. An expert of traps.

(A): It is possible to disable nearly 60% of the total military force before the enemy advances.

Noble Phantasms

Man of Miracles: The Saviour of the World
Anti-Unit, Anti-Army
Rank: A+
Throughout his life, Zero was regarded as a man who could make the impossible, possible. The miracles he would perform seemed to defy all logic and reason, and eventually many of his followers began to believe that no goal was unreachable; that no victory was unobtainable. And when Zero finally made his triumphant return to slay the Demon Emperor Lelouch, his status as a Man of Miracles and a genuine Saviour of the World was solidified for the rest of history.
As a result of being seen as a Man of Miracles, Zero continues to be able to perform the same unimaginable feats. He is able to escape from any situation, turn the tide of battle even if there appears to be no chance at victory, and can avoid death almost as if Alaya itself is aiding him. However, each feat he performs requires a luck check.
Near the end of his life, it was rumoured that Zero possessed a form of Mystic Eyes known as “Geass”. It is unknown whether or not these rumours were true.

Shinkirō: Shield of the Black Knights
Anti-Army
Rank: A
A powerful type of humanoid war machine called a “Knightmare”. It is capable of flight, and can also transform into a jet fighter to move at extreme speeds.
It possesses an “Absolute Defense System” that is capable of projecting extremely powerful defensive shields that can block incoming attacks. These shields are not automated; they require the intellect of the pilot to calculate the trajectories of the attacks and move the shields accordingly.
It also possesses a “Diffusion Structure Phase Transition Cannon”, a powerful weapon that can be used to fire multiple pinpoint lasers or a single concentrated attack. To utilize it, Shinkirō’s shields must be deactivated first.
Although it was eventually stolen by the Demon Emperor Lelouch and later destroyed, during Zero’s time as the leader of The Black Knights, it was used continuously as a key to victory.

[Der Ritter]

Man of Miracles: Saviour Of the World just sounds like Pioneer of the Stars with sprinkles to me. While I like how you worded it, the fact is I don't feel it's very unique or impressive to be an NP. Also Saviour class has the Counter Hero skill. While I forgive you for not knowing that, you should still add it for the sake of being close to canon.

[Rafflesiac]

I'd call the formatting of the first better.

[Sesto]

Man of Miracles: Saviour Of the World just sounds like Pioneer of the Stars with sprinkles to me. While I like how you worded it, the fact is I don't feel it's very unique or impressive to be an NP. Also Saviour class has the Counter Hero skill. While I forgive you for not knowing that, you should still add it for the sake of being close to canon.

He's actually Ruler, not Saviour. But that makes me realize I should probably drop the "genuine" part of the NP's description.

I think the NP itself is a bit different than Pioneer of the Stars, as it extends beyond just making impossible challenges possible. It makes him nigh-unkillable. An attack in his direction that should be impossible to avoid would be avoided with little effort, for example. Under normal circumstances it might be OP, but he's Ruler, so the only real purpose it serves is to make him look cool.

And really, his "miracle making" would be a large part of his legend, so I feel simply giving him Pioneer of the Stars and calling it a day wouldn't be enough. It's more based on the belief that he could create miracles, and not so much on any actual skill he possessed.

[Der Ritter]

Give him B or A rank Luck and Pioneer of the Stars and you basically have the exact same thing.