Like Glass (HF True, AU)(Sakura, Rin)(One-shot)

[Kotonoha]

Here is a video of sloths.

Feel better?

[Aiden]

... Kotonoha knows what people want, I see this now.

[Seika]

... Kotonoha knows what people want, I see this now.

She does have one blindspot.

[Kotonoha]

She does have one blindspot.

You saying you don't like sloths?

[Seika]

No, I'm saying you like Shinji. And no-one else does. So you are forever alone. Hahahaha! /explainingthejoke

[Kotonoha]

*looks at Shinji fanclub*

I think you may find you're not quite correct in that assumption.

[Seika]

You know that the Shinji fanclub is not about (and has never been about) Shinji, right? Honestly, that's your fanclub. They're just willing to accept certain ... eccentricities of yours.

[Kotonoha]

You shouldn't believe everything Mike says.

(Actually you shouldn't believe most of the things Mike says, unless it's about fancy science.)

[Spinach]

... I like Shinji.

[Laith]

Shinji. Lovable.

[DreamsRequiem]

...Shinji? Likable? O_O

[Keyne]

That was quite a read, Beamu~~ very sad and emotional. The 'talking with ghosts' thing.. it reminded me with Black Lagoon and Roberta talking to a ghost of a guy she murdered.. that's soul-shattering.

If I could make a request, would it be ok to ask you for Shirou's PoV on the same story?

They are both seeing ghosts, so it'd make the story, taken from both points of view, even more interesting.

[Mike1984]

Sakura, cool. We're basically in agreement on that. But Shirō isn't responsible for the deaths that went on to be caused? Really?

What, for actually wanting to save an innocent girl? No, not really. He did everything he could short of cold-blooded murder to prevent them.

It's unsatisfactory for me that the sacrifices do not get their relative share of attention in HF True, when compared to the rest of the route.

Well, then, explain to me how you would have written HF True to include it in a way that actually made sense....

2) There was one previous good end. CotD, UBW True, HF True and LE are all bitter-sweet to one degree or another. Moreover, that was labelled a 'Good End', so I take it less seriously. I would be more (though not at all fully - HF deserves a True End, even if it's just Normal renamed) content if HF True were called HF Good.

HF Normal is not a "True End", though. It's too damn depressing.

Entirely unfair. We were utterly ignorant of Sakura's pain both in the text and metatext. You can't count her as a sacrifice - we simply know too little, and she's involved too little for that to happen. If each route didn't unlock the next, you would be correct. As it is, I cannot accept your point.

Rubbish. Just because Rin does not know her situation, that does not mean she is not a "sacrifice".

[Keyne]

HF Normal is not a "True End", though. It's too damn depressing.

Not all endings are meant to be happy you know. Right, Shirou and Shiki?

[Spinach]

Not all endings are meant to be happy you know. Right, Akiha?

.

[Mike1984]

Not all endings are meant to be happy you know. Right, Shirou and Shiki?

Sakura gets absolutely no other happy ending, though. She should at least get one to her own route. Plus, HF Normal is far too depressing to be a "True end".

[Techlet]

.

;__;

[Keyne]

I dunno of the level of depression the ending evokes is really an argument. Spinach has a point though.

I'll spoil you, but to determine which ending you'll get in Akiha's route, you have to either kill yourself or her. Now, isn't that depressing? Guess which choice leads to the true end.

[Seika]

What, for actually wanting to save an innocent girl? No, not really. He did everything he could short of cold-blooded murder to prevent them.

Sakura asked to die. It's not 'cold-blooded murder', it's assissting a suicide. A suicide with profoundly good reasoning behind it. And, in the scale of things, one innocent girl is worth less than dozens of innocent people.

Well, then, explain to me how you would have written HF True to include it in a way that actually made sense....

Not sure that's fair - I'm not a professional writer. Very well, though. I would have included (perhaps started with?) a scene in a graveyard. An empty grave for Ilya. Perhaps they might also have a marker of some sort for all those that were killed by the Shadow. There could have been proper reflection, the dead could have been given their due. Then maybe they go on their cherry blossom trip. Personally, that feels like too jarring a mood transition, so perhaps they just go home to get on with their respective occupations. They've had their (annual?) memorial of the events that changed them permanently, they've paid their respects, now they will return to the present. The past is kept in mind but not unnecessarily dwelt in - their departure from the graveyard could even discuss and look forward to the future instead. Acceptable?

HF Normal is not a "True End", though. It's too damn depressing.

*shrug* I offered it as a hypothetical, mostly because I find it to be an absolutely excellent ending. There are other ways to do it, certainly.

Rubbish. Just because Rin does not know her situation, that does not mean she is not a "sacrifice".

I mentioned 'text' and 'meta-text'. There was a reason for this - when considering UBW True or Good etc., we didn't know about Sakura at the time. It's not right to try and factor her in when she was not relevant. I'm particularly talking about this from the meta-text perspective, partly because the discussion of themes and underlying ideals like 'sacrifice' belong in that realm. But also partly because it's relevant to something that could have happened but didn't. Nasu made the routes a continuous series rather than parallel sets. One has to go through each to get to the next. We are meant to accumulate the ideas and go forward with them. Conversely, that means we can't apply them in retrospect; the game was not designed that way. Again, I make the point that if F/SN had gone for this 'parallel' arrangement, you would be correct. I don't think it would necessarily change my view of Rin, but it would change my view of UBW as a whole. Textually, Rin still wouldn't know about Sakura's situation, but meta-textually, we would. And so your point would apply. But, as we are, it does not.

[Mike1984]

Sakura asked to die. It's not 'cold-blooded murder', it's assissting a suicide. A suicide with profoundly good reasoning behind it. And, in the scale of things, one innocent girl is worth less than dozens of innocent people.

Sorry, but you cannot simply add up human lives in that way. Sakura has as much right to live as everyone. And, asssisting the suicide of someone who is clearly not in any kind of emotional state to make that decision reasonably is entirely wrong.

Not sure that's fair - I'm not a professional writer. Very well, though. I would have included (perhaps started with?) a scene in a graveyard. An empty grave for Ilya. Perhaps they might also have a marker of some sort for all those that were killed by the Shadow. There could have been proper reflection, the dead could have been given their due. Then maybe they go on their cherry blossom trip. Personally, that feels like too jarring a mood transition, so perhaps they just go home to get on with their respective occupations. They've had their (annual?) memorial of the events that changed them permanently, they've paid their respects, now they will return to the present. The past is kept in mind but not unnecessarily dwelt in - their departure from the graveyard could even discuss and look forward to the future instead. Acceptable?

Well, that could work (and I could definitely see Sakura doing something like that), but I guess it doesn't fit with the generally "optimistic" mood, and nor does it show the Cherry Blossom viewing that Shirou promised her.

*shrug* I offered it as a hypothetical, mostly because I find it to be an absolutely excellent ending. There are other ways to do it, certainly.

But it's horribly depressing. Sakura deserves way better than that.

I mentioned 'text' and 'meta-text'. There was a reason for this - when considering UBW True or Good etc., we didn't know about Sakura at the time. It's not right to try and factor her in when she was not relevant. I'm particularly talking about this from the meta-text perspective, partly because the discussion of themes and underlying ideals like 'sacrifice' belong in that realm. But also partly because it's relevant to something that could have happened but didn't. Nasu made the routes a continuous series rather than parallel sets. One has to go through each to get to the next. We are meant to accumulate the ideas and go forward with them. Conversely, that means we can't apply them in retrospect; the game was not designed that way. Again, I make the point that if F/SN had gone for this 'parallel' arrangement, you would be correct. I don't think it would necessarily change my view of Rin, but it would change my view of UBW as a whole. Textually, Rin still wouldn't know about Sakura's situation, but meta-textually, we would. And so your point would apply. But, as we are, it does not.

Sorry, that's just bullshit. Sakura is not fucking "irrelevant" just because it's the route before hers, and it's quite possible to re-watch UBW after playing HF, which makes the endings just suck.