The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[Rafflesiac]

I think that's shown pretty well in Yuga Kshetra actually. Once Arjuna is dealt with there is nothing actually wrong with that world anymore, but Chaldea still has to destroy it anyway.

Aside from being a desolate hellscape an inch from the end of days.

[yokushi]

Aside from being a desolate hellscape an inch from the end of days.

Not at all. That happened because of Arjuna. At the very end before the world is erased you see it in the green flowery state again, now without someone forcing the cycle to be so short and merciless.

[Rafflesiac]

I forgot that part, whoops.

[Reign]

So Fantasy Tree is translated as "Tree of Emptiness" in NA. Is that a translation that actually works? Because I don't know how flexible the Japanese term is but 'fantasy' and 'emptiness' seem pretty different to me.

[Leftovers]

lol, this is the modern version of 空想具現化 -> "teleport in the air"

[pinetree]

So Fantasy Tree is translated as "Tree of Emptiness" in NA. Is that a translation that actually works? Because I don't know how flexible the Japanese term is but 'fantasy' and 'emptiness' seem pretty different to me.

If this redditor is correct, then it seems like they took one kanji from the word fantasy?

"Fantasy Trees" are written as 空想樹. First off 樹 means "tree" so we'll just take that out and look at "空想".

In Japanese, 空想 means "fantasy", but it's made up of the kanji 空 meaning "emptiness", and 想 meaning an idea, or concept. Therefore in Japanese, "fantasy" is written as an "empty concept", or an idea without substance. This is where the "Tree of Emptiness" comes from. It's all part of that inherent nature of kanji where a word has both its meaning, as well as the deeper implied meaning of the kanji that make up the word, which is a double-nature English doesn't tend to have.

I don't get how that makes more sense than Fantasy Tree but there's probably (hopefully) some reason for it.

[Skull]

I suspect if there was some logical decision behind it, it would probably be along the lines of dissociating from the term "Fantasy" which when the average joe hears thinks of the genre and of Tolkien and the like, whereas "空想" refers more to a psychological fantasy.

Or maybe the translator was just a dummy and didn't realise "空想" was a compound word and just tried to use read the entire thing literally. Who knows... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[pinetree]

IIRC from what they've said about their process, freelancers translate most (or all) text and then the Aniplex team reviews and rewrites what is needed. Specially terms and names, for which they have a "lore specialist" who used to post here. During this process they sometimes consult Japan to decide on something.

Seems like a pretty good method, so I'd like to believe there's a reason behind this decision.

[SeiKeo]

Are Guy

[BeastXxx]

Human Order=humanity/human history
Imaginary Numbers space=Void space
Mystery=Mystics

Some other cases of NA tl being different from fan tls of commonly used Nasu terms.

[pinetree]

Honestly the only one I keep questioning every time is Void Space. They have CEs titled The Imaginary Element and Imaginary Around, they used imaginary numbers in Heaven's Feel and in Babylonia (don't know about the anime though)...
Maybe they decided to change it now that it has become more relevant than ever in the game, but why?

[You]

If this redditor is correct, then it seems like they took one kanji from the word fantasy?

I don't get how that makes more sense than Fantasy Tree but there's probably (hopefully) some reason for it.

So Fantasy Tree is translated as "Tree of Emptiness" in NA. Is that a translation that actually works? Because I don't know how flexible the Japanese term is but 'fantasy' and 'emptiness' seem pretty different to me.

Even if you use the galaxy brain idea of each translating each kanji literally as per what that guy said it still wouldn't be "Tree of Emptiness."

[Laserman]

So they're outright wrong then?

[Reign]

It's possible this is some mandate translation from Japan like Mystics apparently was, but I'd probably chalk it up to a mistake looking at like Aniplex anime subs as precedent.
if only Arashi was still around to tell us the thought process.

Honestly the only one I keep questioning every time is Void Space. They have CEs titled The Imaginary Element and Imaginary Around, they used imaginary numbers in Heaven's Feel and in Babylonia (don't know about the anime though)...
Maybe they decided to change it now that it has become more relevant than ever in the game, but why?

That one is really weird too.

[Leftovers]

If only Are Guy was here to clear this up...

[TwilightsCall]

Or maybe the translator was just a dummy and didn't realise "空想" was a compound word and just tried to use read the entire thing literally. Who knows... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Even if you use the galaxy brain idea of each translating each kanji literally as per what that guy said it still wouldn't be "Tree of Emptiness."

This sounds like a fun game.

Skythought Trees.


Or, hear me out now.

空想樹
sky-thought-tree

Now let's pretend I don't know the difference between 空 and 天

heaven-thought-tree

Heaven-tree sounds like a reference to "world tree," so now its Yggdrasil.

What to do with 想 though....thought/idea/conception, let's make that an antonym of "in practice/concrete/real." So now 想 means "not real/fake." This works twice as good because it's a "heaven tree," not a "world tree," so it can't be a "real yggdrasil" anyways.

And there's more than one, so we can't just use the proper name and call it "fake Yggdrasil."

Pseudoyggdrasilid.

Hard to spell, totally opaque, and wildly inaccurate. Dare I say, the perfect translation.

[AAM1232]

How does Fallacies's TL work then?

Cloud Tree / Tree of Fantasy (空想樹, kuusouki, "tree of thoughts / imaginings unfounded")

[Reign]

As far as the cloud part, either Holmes or Da Vinci calls it something like "a tree with a bough of clouds instead of leaves."

[Leftovers]

(空想樹, kuusouki, "tree of thoughts / imaginings unfounded")

hallucinogenic tree

- - - Updated - - -

and that would STILL be better than rendering each character individually

[AAM1232]

As far as the cloud part, either Holmes or Da Vinci calls it something like "a tree with a bough of clouds instead of leaves."

Yeah, Falla used that in the context of Holmes talking about it.