Isn't it suspected the epic of gilgamesh was a propaganda work in someway?Originally Posted by Blastedspider
Isn't it suspected the epic of gilgamesh was a propaganda work in someway?
In a relative sense, she does not.
More cultural then someone who's work permeates one of the most important factors in modern human life?
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All this really makes me depressed. The fact that someone who was real and saved real lives is not as relevant as secondary characters in ancient made up stories
here is a list of my servant sheets(new and improved format for my servant sheets)
Come explore the White Library, and reach the bottom of this Abyss
Fate / White Memoria
They are not warriors but that's because there are no major wars. There are modern heroic traditions of such kind in the areas of the world which do experience conflicts on the other hand. They are more grounded to what the ones of the past but it mostly comes down to cultural differences, which were already present in the past (compare to portrayl of combat in the Iliad and Mahabharata, for example).
I think that drawing a line arbitrary is a pretty much the only way to "solve" this issue.
I don't understand what issue you're referring to. Modernity sucks, there are no heroes left in man, and some 21st century uncontacted Amazonian tribe leader who has led over 300 raids into enemy territory leaves virtually no imprint on humanity's collective unconscious or, if you prefer, cultural memory.
Nasu disagrees
Last edited by Byegod; June 5th, 2020 at 07:36 PM.
Use your words.
Who is qualified to be a Heroic Spirit and who doesn't.
I was thinking more about the likes of Simo Häyhä and 20th century dictators. Its hard to argue that they had attained legendary status in the respective cultures.Modernity sucks, there are no heroes left in man, and some 21st century uncontacted Amazonian tribe leader who has led over 300 raids into enemy territory leaves virtually no imprint on humanity's collective unconscious or, if you prefer, cultural memory.
Last edited by Blastedspider; June 5th, 2020 at 07:49 PM.
This regarding what a hero is in the modern age and contemporary culture, notwithstanding any factors discussed in the previous posts.
The usual quote for how gun does not a hero make.Q: If there are Heroic Spirits like Archer, who was summoned independent of time axis, is it possible for warriors from the future, who are loaded with modern weapons, to be summoned as Servants?
A: Although modern weapons are powerful, it is difficult for the users of modern weapons to be classified as Heroic Spirits. The advantage of modern weapons is "anyone can use them as long as they were trained", thus it is difficult for the user to become a Heroic Spirit, whose definition is "the one and only". The users of modern weapons are faceless heroes. If there are indeed heroes who are loaded with modern weapons, the users will not become Heroic Spirits, as they are merely "experts anyone can achieve through sufficient training". The actual Heroic Spirits being worshiped will be the "greatest weapon of that era". However, for the weapon to become a Heroic Spirit in this case, it must harbour a soul.
She was also a pioneer in statistical mathematics, fun fact.
Occasionally (incorrectly) credited with inventing the pie chart
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Y'all gotta stop pretending it's nothing more than arbitrary decision making on the writers' part
I know but these are just in-universe explanations for arbitrarily drawn lines. Chanelling Mankind's will was not a thing for the mythological figures like Jason or Perseus (and nor did they save the world). On the other hand Simo was called The Magic Shooter, indicating that his skills with the rifle were seen as supernatural, while François Duvalier was considered to be a sorcerer and an incarnation of a deity.
Last edited by Blastedspider; June 5th, 2020 at 09:16 PM.
You don't have to be a hero to be cool.
Exactly. I would just stick to "you have to have a legend" and "said legend have to endure for a century at minimum after your death" as that would be enough to disqualify most controversial ("too contemporary") figures.
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Although I am not sure where that leaves Nightingale. "Barely qualifies", I guess? Its hard say if there are legends associated with her.
Last edited by Blastedspider; June 5th, 2020 at 08:31 PM.
Seems to me this escape hatch was written to future proof."Let me make a contract. I shall give you my life after my death. I would like the compensation now."
He weaves the words of contract.
After that, he changed as though possessed by something and saved people who could not normally be saved.
…Oh, so this must be how he became a "heroic spirit".
…Seeing it this way, it's nothing much.
I bet the people he saved were not even in the hundreds.
He cannot even be called a "hero" with such a number, nor would he be promoted to a "heroic spirit".
But the number isn't important.
The qualification of a hero, one who surpasses humans, is to be able to save those that are fated to die.
It is an alteration of fate.
It does not matter if he does not have power as a hero, as long as he averted a disaster that could not be changed, however small in scope.
No.
The world would obtain a "heroic spirit" in compensation for the miracle.
If you altered "fate" you are a hero, therefore a HS.
And popularity/persistence in cultural consciousness determines your role as a HS be it inspirational speaker or janitor.
Heroes who achieved great things in life, and became objects of worship after death.
As a “power that protects humanity,” they are high ranking existences, categorically closer to elementals than wraiths.
However, whereas elementals are “power” given form using the container called human imagination, Heroic Spirits are woven from people’s ideals on the inside, too.
Among the Heroic Spirits, there are those from legends, those that really existed, and those that were never observed at all. The ones who aren’t worshipped much fall under the broad classification of “Counter Guardian,” and are used as a mindless “Counter Force.”
Of all the Heroic Spirits that appeared in the story, the only one functioning as a “Counter Guardian” was Archer.
Because the other Heroic Spirits had high divinity, and were existences closer to the planet than humanity, they were able to avoid being drafted as Counter Guardians.
Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
Well yeah, this is like the other side of the coin? While any man can, in a manner of speaking, save the world and get no recognition for the deed, becoming meguca allows you to do something that no one could possibly have done in the modern era - save the doomed, hence overturn fate, hence fulfill the condition of a hero being someone whose deeds are irreplicable, and so on - and you're automatically registered in the humanity-saving corps by default, where by having no recognition for your name in the form of worship/myth you're stuck being a lowly unpaid Counter Guardian.
Last edited by Leftovers; June 5th, 2020 at 08:45 PM.
I take it Michelangelo didn't save anyone then.
I've seen some speculations before that Nightingale being called "Angel of the Crimea" and being hailed as an actual angel by the news back then literally gave her a form of divinity, thus she is qualified in term of "worship and cultural significance" even if it's really minor compare to others.
Okay, yeah, I can agree with that. Thank you.
I guess I will sit out of the discussion from now on, this is turning into a personal matter where it shouldn't be.
here is a list of my servant sheets(new and improved format for my servant sheets)
Come explore the White Library, and reach the bottom of this Abyss
Fate / White Memoria
So you essentially said this:
But in a not funny way. Beast Reinhard, though. Also, the fact that some Servants can be from the future (EMIYA) debunks your entire rule, though.
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