The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[LegalLoliLover]

I wonder what Kotomine would think of Max Stirner. Kotomine considers himself "evil" based on his... unique inclinations because that's what he believes (usually correctly) society would consider said inclinations. Stirner would consider such a consideration to be based on nothing but spooks. IIRC, there was a line from Kotomine saying that people know good and evil through learning (and thus Angra Mainyu cannot be "evil" because it know no other path), but Stirner wants people to learn that there is no significant defining factor of moral value other than their own selves. Anything else that appears to define moral value is just another spook.

[RoydGolden]

I wonder what Kotomine would think of Max Stirner. Kotomine considers himself "evil" based on his... unique inclinations because that's what he believes (usually correctly) society would consider said inclinations. Stirner would consider such a consideration to be based on nothing but spooks. IIRC, there was a line from Kotomine saying that people know good and evil through learning (and thus Angra Mainyu cannot be "evil" because it know no other path), but Stirner wants people to learn that there is no significant defining factor of moral value other than their own selves. Anything else that appears to define moral value is just another spook.

Kotomine's actions are wrong by his own standards though, not just "society's". That's what makes him such a tragic character, he genuinely believes in God and knows his actions are wrong yet still enjoys doing them. So I doubt he'd feel particularly swayed by such an ideology.

[Takashi]

Kotomine has common sense to know that his particular enjoyment and flaw is wrong.
That's how kotomine's flaw is described. Mostly applies to himself rather than society.

[LegalLoliLover]

True, but given that he was raised by a priest, weren't his standards based on said Christianity? When Gilgamesh was giving him that therapy session, didn't Kotomine say that following Gilgamesh's advice make him a "godless sinner"? In other words, he's still factoring in "God" with his decisions.

he genuinely believes in God

And here I thought Angra Mainyu would be his new God. Most Christians turn towards some carpenter to get their answers to life's important questions. Kotomine tried that, got no satisfactory answer, and decided to ask another God.

[Takashi]

Probably because Bible also says to love your neighbor and such. That's why he devoted himself to God to fix his flaws.
All and all kirei is the best boi of fate stay night

[LegalLoliLover]

Yes, I do agree that he is. The only variable is whether or not he needed to take as long as he did to reach his conclusions. It's like in math where you wonder if showing your work to get the answer is more or less important than actually getting that answer.

[ThompsonContender]

Is gilgamesh dead in fsf

[Comun]

And here I thought Angra Mainyu would be his new God.

That’s not what he wanted out of Angra at all. He wanted to put something unquestionably born evil in the world to raise him properly, so he could get his answer on whether something evil by nature was able to become good by nurture. He wanted to know if he ever had a chance even if he, by his own standards, failed to become good.

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Is gilgamesh dead in fsf

Unfortunately not yet.

[ThompsonContender]

What do you mean, unfortunately? I want Gil to live.. I want Tine and Wolf and their servants to survive, it's not like they desire the grail.

[Zork Knight]

Funny enough, just yesterday I read Thomas Aquinas' argument that no thing has a natural inclination towards evil, not even demons.

The lesson here is Nasu is a hack.

[Sesto]

kirei is always funny to me, reading f/sn when he is first introduced I thought he was edgy and cringe with his whole "what other people called happiness does not bring me any joy" line in the church

then the final confrontation in heaven's feel comes around and he repeats the line and i bask in the kino

[LegalLoliLover]

That’s not what he wanted out of Angra at all. He wanted to put something unquestionably born evil in the world to raise him properly, so he could get his answer on whether something evil by nature was able to become good by nurture. He wanted to know if he ever had a chance even if he, by his own standards, failed to become good.

? I thought that he wanted Angra Mainyu to do his thing and what he, Angra Mainyu, thought of those actions. I mean, Kirei himself was "nurtured good" by Risei. It's just that doing those "good actions" did not make himself feel good.

Funny enough, just yesterday I read Thomas Aquinas' argument that no thing has a natural inclination towards evil, not even demons.

The lesson here is Nasu is a hack.

No thing has a natural inclination towards evil, but everyone's standards of "good" and "evil" are self-determined, according to Stirner. Any external standards that would affect one's own determination, especially those considered "sacred", are nothing more than spooks that should be ignored.

[Rafflesiac]

Gil is by far the most disposable character in FSF, his death would've been based.

[LegalLoliLover]

Isn't the FSF portrayal of Gil the most boring or something? Like, wasn't it written by someone who failed to understand Gilgamesh's chaotic good alignment?

[Escavalien]

I haven't read it but that's pretty contradictory to what I've heard about FSF so far? I've only really heard praise for FSF's Gilgamesh. Did the author really fuck up something that integral to Gilgamesh's appeal? This is horrible news if true. I was looking forward to starting it soon.

[Kamera]

go actually read it, it's fully translated

[Escavalien]

I'm going to read it either way

[Takashi]

Funny enough, just yesterday I read Thomas Aquinas' argument that no thing has a natural inclination towards evil, not even demons.

The lesson here is Nasu is a hack.

That's the thing nasu told by fate hollow ataraxia even angra is unable to fully hate humans.
But essentially for him it's no longer a behaviour or emotion. It evolved into way of life.
All the world's evil is a joke or something.

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Yes, I do agree that he is. The only variable is whether or not he needed to take as long as he did to reach his conclusions. It's like in math where you wonder if showing your work to get the answer is more or less important than actually getting that answer.

You mean before what Gilgamesh told?
Before Gilgamesh he just wanted to fix himself. He would spend his life but probably never gonna get the answer

[Escavalien]

I mean Zero's relationship between Gilgamesh and Kirei kind of undersells Kirei's character by pretending it's all due to Gilgamesh's amazing speeches when in reality Kirei was becoming that man anyways, Gil just added to it.

[LegalLoliLover]

You mean before what Gilgamesh told?
Before Gilgamesh he just wanted to fix himself. He would spend his life but probably never gonna get the answer

Exactly. The only thing regrettable about meeting Gilgamesh was not meeting him sooner. Of course, if he met Gil before he met Claudia, Caren might not have been born, so there might have been some merit to that aimless and ultimately fruitless wandering. Well, fruitless for his own life, not for making Caren.