The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[fumei]

Isnt there also 'the greater mystery wins' when it comes to magic...

That's always been a rule of thumb rather than a hard rule. In fact, if you read the FSN line that mentions this in JP it's not even close to as "absolute" as the English line makes it seem.

JP: 神秘は、より強い神秘にうち消されるのが理だ。
MM: It is the law that a divine mystery will be eliminated by a greater divine mystery.
(Probably) more accurate TL: It is only natural that a Mystery would be negated by a stronger one.

The idea is that a greater mystery will have a generally higher chance of negating/winning out over a lesser one, like how if you try to shoot a phantasmal beast with your shitty modern magic then it'll just dissipate and not do anything. But it's not absolute in the sense of your spell is 100 years old and mine is 101 so mine always wins. Perhaps if it was the exact same spell and the only thing that differed was the "accumulated mystery", but otherwise you still have to take all those other factors into account as always. And Fate has practically always been about advantages winning out rather than just raw power, and it's the same thing here. Hell, even the actual scene in FSN this is from doesn't even paint the scenario as "pegasus is older so it's gonna win", it's just describing why this magical horse is strong.

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When you think about it, most of the stuff from FSN that people think are "hard rules" are just these kinds of rules of thumb, even ignoring "nasu loves to break his own rule". The english lines just often make things sound so factual and black and white.

[Blastedspider]

So what you're really saying is that Cu has a better record when he doesn't use his bullshit instant win. The old case of 'nothing wastes more time than trying to save time'.

The target is also an important factor. Gae Bolg is typically used on opponents which are on the same level as Cu, so its only natural that they more often than not have the means to counter it. On the other using it against someone you cab just stab and be done with it is a wasted effort.

[Skull]

For my own curiosity, I tried to wrap my head around the enigma that is Morgan based on information given so far in various Profiles and whatnot...

Let's do the time warp

• According to the public story, Morgan was the child of Duke Gorlois and Igraine who later became the Step-Daughter to King Uther when her mother remarried. But this is false and in actuality she is a "Great Mother" Class Fairy from the Inner Sea of the Planet and incarnated as the true daughter of Uther and Igraine, thus making her Artoria's full biological sister.
• Under the guise of "Nimue", Morgan abducts the infant prince Galahad and upon renaming him "Lancelot du Lac", raises him to adulthood as her own child before eventually sending him on his way to Artoria's court.
• Meanwhile, Morgan marries King Lot of Lothian and/or Orkney and bears him the children Gawain, Agravain, Gaheris & Gareth - all who become Knights of the Round Table.
• Seemingly(?) at the same time, Morgan marries King Urien of Gorre and bears him the son Yvain who also joins the Round Table at an unknown point if Bunny Artoria's Profile mentioning Yvain is to be believed.
• According to Kay in Garden of Avalon, Morgan laid a trap that lead to the destruction of the Sword in the Stone - Caliburn. Presumably referring to the clash with King Pellinore. Afterwards, Morgan appears in her new guise as the benevolent Lady of the Lake, "Vivian" to gift Artoria Excalibur to replace Caliburn.
• Much later Morgan enchanted Artoria (who was a psuedo-male at the time due to Merlin's ploy) to extract sperm and thus Mordred was born who aged rapidly and became a Knight of the Round Table.
• In addition, Morgan stole the scabbard Avalon shortly before the Battle of Camlann which wound up being found by Richard the Lionheart who placed it in a box that was excavated by the Einzberns for the 4th Holy Grail War.
• The Battle of Camlann occurs which wipes out most of the Round Table and the fatally wounded Artoria is ferried to Avalon (the island not the scabbard) by Morgan, whilst Bedivere throws Excalibur back into the Lake to return it to Vivian...who is also Morgan.
• I haven't read past Volume 1 of Case Files so I won't comment on the whole "Black Madonna" stuff. But after all that, Vivian sets a trap that ensnares Merlin and locks him in the "Garden of Avalon".
• Morgan than proceeds to hang around for several centuries, becoming an enemy of the Twelve Paladins of Charlemagne as well as an ally of Richard the Lionheart (under the guise of Nimue) if the Strange Fake foreshadowing is correct.

Phew, quite a lot of stuff there and some of that could be subject to change if we ever get the finer details on some events like what exactly happened with Caliburn. But for the most part I think that straightens it out at least in my own head anyways.

[Ideofago]

Real life men can grow tits. It's called Gynecomastia. I don't see a lot of weebs fapping to that like we do to certain servants but it's there.

It's even a plot point in one of the episodes of Cowboy Bebop.

[Comun]

Also Morgan's magecraft was learned from Merlin, and Prelati's magecraft was learned from "Merlin's student" "fae of the lake".

[Noa]

I think there's a line from Prelati that's something like "our teacher would have wanted to help Artoria in the Fourth Grail War if she could but there's not enough mystery left for her to reach Japan from Britain".

[Byegod]

Feels like waver and marisbilly are somehow the most imporant people in history with how waver is a bloody universal constant and marisbilly is tied to all this divergent point events or related to that stuff

[Kamera]

???
How do you even reach that conclusion?

[Comun]

Marisbilly was mentioned once outside of FGO and didn’t appear when it happened. Darnic is more universally important than him.

[Kamera]

And Kiara has more universal role than these two combined.

[Daemon]

Waver isn't even the most important person in his own series (and what does he even do outside of that and zero except get mentioned by name?) and marisbilly doesn't influence anything outside of FGO (and didn't do so alone) so I'm not sure what this is even about

[All fictions]

Forgetting about Touko like that, smh

[OnesFleetingGlory]

Feels like waver and marisbilly are somehow the most imporant people in history with how waver is a bloody universal constant and marisbilly is tied to all this divergent point events or related to that stuff

Some elaborations beside a sentence or two would've been nice. Like someone suggested before, if you're not good with words then at least provide a source, link, or even screenshots for context.

[Noa]

Waver isn't even the most important person in his own series (and what does he even do outside of that and zero except get mentioned by name?) and marisbilly doesn't influence anything outside of FGO (and didn't do so alone) so I'm not sure what this is even about

Being fair, Marisbury did indirectly influence the conflict of Case Files by

Spoiler:

Hiring Heartless to investigate the Grail War, thus making Heartless aware of Servants and instigating his plan to summon Iskandar

So his influence isn't wholly limited to GO. That's like the only other example though.

[Byegod]

Some elaborations beside a sentence or two would've been nice. Like someone suggested before, if you're not good with words then at least provide a source, link, or even screenshots for context.

I'm more just saying on how waver appears in every timeline even in tsukihime stuff, and yeah sure others mentioned like kiara or touko. I'm saying that it feels like there 'universal constants', Darnic and his clan feel like the ones that dont really get the same position in every timeline?

then there is the theory

Spoiler:

that marisbilly is responsible for fate/extra's state of being. I personally subscribe to it. marisbilly has done so much stuff and I feel the whole wound in the earths soul or whatever that was mentioned in extra and then you got chaldeas in fgo.... Along with like all the simulation stuff in fgo.

[Comun]

/EXTRA's situation is already blamed on the Harwey family, though.

[Gohyuinshee]

Waver is less important and more like a comforting constant. So far no matter what divergence we seen he always end up more or less the same in the same position. Plus the dude is just generally pretty harmless and a nice familiar face to see.

Kiara is the one who has a pretty big influence though, the first Fate character to span towards the Tsuki timeline I believe.

[Noa]

Since Nasu was planning TsukiRe around the same time he was writing CCC, he probably had Kiara fresh in his mind when developing the new Burial Agency.
I assume this is also the reason Laurentis shows up in both Tsukihime and Extra mats.

[Takashi]

/EXTRA's situation is already blamed on the Harwey family, though.

Some people interpreted as twice blaming on humanity itself rather than harweys.

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I am not sure if it's true or not

[Petrikow]

Some people interpreted as twice blaming on humanity itself rather than harweys.

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I am not sure if it's true or not

And yet, not a single part of any Harwey name we know fits into the 6 character limit as defined by Nasu.

By the way, the information that the Harweys caused it is also on the very same page that I just posted. Twice says it was caused by "you people" (talking to Leo) so that's where that comes from. But hey, maybe he didn't mean the Harweys, but something else, perhaps he meant humanity itself. That the kind of sneaky wording Nasu could employ.

It was me, and it was just idle thoughts.