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Thread: The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

  1. #36701
    ok i guess that's fair



  2. #36702
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    That Melty Blood scenario kinda made it feel like they can't meaningfully coexist on the long term without eating one another in his mind "Tsukihime vs Fate, which will survive?" or whatever he said. So better to have barriers of separation for identity.

  3. #36703
    هههههههههههههههههههه Kamera's Avatar
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    I guess in a way Fate itself has become such specific genre on it own that TM writers can't help but cannibalize on it, similar to other overly specific genres like Isekai and Tournament Arcs. It might just be how the Japanese literature market and fandomhood work.
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  4. #36704
    Japanese? I feel like that's every market. Successful formula = keep reusing it. That's why Disney seems so intent on doing Infinity War again with Marvel.



  5. #36705
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Nanaya's Avatar
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    Everyone wanting a piece of the pie

  6. #36706
    هههههههههههههههههههه Kamera's Avatar
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    Fate Lostbelt Isekai with Tournament Arcs, whew no wonder LB6 was peak.
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  7. #36707
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    To be honest, I'm not even sure if Fate was ever that open to being anything with that much to explore, more so than what's in the first VN. If I think of Stay night it's generally a story that focuses on Shirou's journey, most of all, and everything else that relates to the world of magecraft is to build upon that, and necessary background for the story to make sense. Then HA comes as the gag installment, telling more stories of our core cast, introducing 3 new characters, all related to the people we already know, and exploring them as well. I think everything else was repeating the formula of either grail war setting because that's the cool flashy and marketable part.

    Even Mahoyo, is primarily a story about Aoko, Alice, and Soujuurou. If it touches upon Magic, it's because it's a core part of their identity. I don't think there's anything about Fate or Mahoyo that actually makes it encouraging or suited to tell more sequels based on mage's association or any of that sort of stuff, Nasu makes installments to tell the journey of people foremost, and I think some spin offs lose sight of that and become "oh yeah fate is about them cool servants and magecraft! I'm gonna tell some good stories about these cool historical figures and cool wizards!" but the installments always started as character progression stories of a core group of people, and there was never any point to exploring parts of the world that didn't enhance their characterization in any way.

    That's not to say it can't happen that we get some decent series looking at something yet unexplored in the world, but it doesn't need to be a Fate, or a Tsukihime, or a Mahoyo story to be in the same universe. I don't even think Fate/ was supposed to ever be more than a Shirou story, or Mahoyo a story of the trio. If Nasu wanted to write about (insert group of people - piece of storybuilding here) he'd probably make a brand new title up, but set in the same world and explore a core cast related to the setting.

  8. #36708
    U-Olga Marie voter TomPen94's Avatar
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    ^ Basically this. That's what I was getting at. FSN is Shirou's story, not the broadcast of the 5th Historical Figure Tenkaichi Budokai. That's what Fate felt it was about when I first finished reading the VN.
    burn your dread you coward

  9. #36709
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One asterism42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz View Post
    Aylesbury Geocentrism eventually. It will easily be the TM event to end all TM events.
    I paid a recent visit to Ayelsbury and there isn't a more suitable town to name an apocalyptic event after, it's the biggest hole I've ever been to.

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    And I've been to Johannesburg
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  10. #36710
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Dartz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    They still do not reach the levels of absolute walking disaster they do in Tsukihime. We haven't even seen a proper highest rank DAA use all their power yet and I don't know if the writing and handwaving would be enough to justify why the world is not summoning counter measures to beings on the level of divine spirits that fundamentally deny and prey upon human history, while a few blocks away they're right there being used to solve any other problem the current fate spin off is having. No fate story is going to be enhanced by Arcueid coming in and swooping the whole thing, or any tsuki story enhanced by servants being called to help clear up the mess, and you're just going to have to come up with convoluted reasons as to why each side is not interfering with the other, or always mix both in every single story you wanna tell.
    They still do. Take the nerfed Van Fem in Fate. With the ability to grant a wish, he is at least equal to the power of a full Grail. It's just the really high ranked DA aren't going to be randomly destroying towns, regardless of the world. And I don't think the Counter Force ever directly summoned Guardians to deal with singular threats, that only happens when shit hits the fan such as the FGO scenarios.

    Also, I never said the two worlds should be interacting. I outright mentioned in my post they are meant to follow a different theme.
    The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
    For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
    Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.

    Tsukihime 2 Prelude III

  11. #36711
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz View Post
    They still do. Take the nerfed Van Fem in Fate. With the ability to grant a wish, he is at least equal to the power of a full Grail. It's just the really high ranked DA aren't going to be randomly destroying towns, regardless of the world. And I don't think the Counter Force ever directly summoned Guardians to deal with singular threats, that only happens when shit hits the fan such as the FGO scenarios.

    Also, I never said the two worlds should be interacting. I outright mentioned in my post they are meant to follow a different theme.
    They don't though, they stop at one rank short of where one would inherit Idea Blood in Fate worlds, one rank higher than a Vlov before factoring in the stolen IB. Powerful, with unique cool vampire superpowers, but they should not have IB, given that you need to be a rank VIII Successor for that, and are two ranks lower to add on to that. They're not on the same scale.

    And the counter force doesn't just let things that threaten humanity directly to proliferate that wildly as they do in Tsukihime though, they might not summon a Grand to deal with it but it's not something they would ignore until they destroy a country, Arc even comments way back in OG Tsuki that the World would normally not be letting these things get so far but the defensive response isn't working right, to which Shiki says "what". It makes sense that in a world with counters in place, the antithesis to humans can't rise to the max levels.

    All in all there's a thematic separation for sure, but there's also the question of the direct competitors to humanity reaching such world bending power levels and proliferation without anything being done about by an outside force when the Tsukihime VN needs to be told, but then actually relying on them when a Fate story needs to be told, it's the sort of thing that for a serious story needs a proper separation for both reasons.

  12. #36712
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Dartz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    They don't though, they stop at one rank short of where one would inherit Idea Blood in Fate worlds, one rank higher than a Vlov before factoring in the stolen IB. Powerful, with unique cool vampire superpowers, but they should not have IB, given that you need to be a rank VIII Successor for that, and are two ranks lower to add on to that. They're not on the same scale.
    I know, but I think it's fair to say they are still on the scale of what you can consider to be 'walking disasters'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post
    And the counter force doesn't just let things that threaten humanity directly to proliferate that wildly as they do in Tsukihime though, they might not summon a Grand to deal with it but it's not something they would ignore until they destroy a country, Arc even comments way back in OG Tsuki that the World would normally not be letting these things get so far but the defensive response isn't working right, to which Shiki says "what". It makes sense that in a world with counters in place, the antithesis to humans can't rise to the max levels.
    Can you provide quote? Because this strongly implies a separation between Tsuki and Fate even before Nasu explicitly made the two series separate.
    The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
    For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
    Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.

    Tsukihime 2 Prelude III

  13. #36713
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz View Post
    I know, but I think it's fair to say they are still on the scale of what you can consider to be 'walking disasters'.
    Can you provide quote? Because this strongly implies a separation between Tsuki and Fate even before Nasu explicitly made the two series separate.

  14. #36714
    アルテミット・ワン Ultimate One Dartz's Avatar
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    Thanks. But I always thought that refered more to the police and the Church. Though I guess you can also interpret it being the Counter Force, hmm.
    The priest was waiting for the arrival of the princess, who was only an enemy of all of them.
    For the priest, the golden princess was the one and only main heroine.
    Everyone else was unworthy of his respect, no matter how strong they were.

    Tsukihime 2 Prelude III

  15. #36715
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    "Erected by the human race" and "functioning" allude to something that's more akin to a system of protection more so than the actions of a group like the church, in my opinion, but it's a translation at the end of the day so I can't tell you much in regards to that. But tthe way she talked about it made me think of counter force first.

  16. #36716
    هههههههههههههههههههه Kamera's Avatar
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    The closest thing in Fate timeline where a DA rampages and went unchecked was that one bit where Richard, Saladin and Hassan ganged up to kill it. That shit rocks.
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  17. #36717
    Quote Originally Posted by Kirishima View Post


    She's talking about the Holy Church.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dartz View Post
    They still do. Take the nerfed Van Fem in Fate. With the ability to grant a wish, he is at least equal to the power of a full Grail.
    What a vintage Dartz argument, I love to see it

  18. #36718
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Kirishima's Avatar
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    Guess so then. Feels weird that she refers to them as a defense mechanism created by the human race.

  19. #36719
    祖 Ancestor Paulie25's Avatar
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    Iirc Angra’s the only (major) character from Stay Night, Zero, and Hollow to not have a Natural Enemy (Also no Image Color, Likes, Dislikes, or Talents) which bothers the shit outta me. I mean I can guess Natural Enemy (It’s presumably just Shirou and Caren) but it bugs me that I’ll never know these for sure.

  20. #36720
    世はまさにパンテオン Comun's Avatar
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    It's Caren, we weren't told but we saw it be Caren on-screen, right in front of our eyes.
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