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Thread: The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

  1. #38981
    フサナンヨウスギ pinetree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulie25 View Post
    I don’t get your point about Jack? Obviously an inventive idea isn’t anything if it’s not executed well but I state later that I think Jack’s arc is the strongest part of Apocrypha. And creativity is… like a positive aspect of a story?
    Jack's interesting Servant design are the concepts of a collection of souls summoned as a single being and Jack the Ripper having many possibilities due to being unadentified. How are those positive additions to the story?

    If we take the JoJo approach as you named it, she's wholly underutilized. Being a collection of souls has no effect on her fighting abilities nor does it add any complications to fighting her. Jack being undefined also doesn't do anything on that front because identities here are only relevant if you have a literal weakness. What else is there? Her most interesting skill is Information Erasure, but there's no extended crime solving section for that to be used effectively, and it doesn't complicate the final fight in any way either. It's immaterial beyond a short, innefective encounter with Chiron. There's also her Noble Phantasm, which is supposed to be an easy win against women but is simply countered by Jeanne being Jeanne. If we were judging her like we judge powers in other battle-focused series, this would be an awful waste of something that should bring a lot of tension in a fight whose main powerhouse is a woman, but that never materializes.

    Narratively I don't even think I have to comment. Jack is an aside, a sidequest that has no importance to the story. Her nature as an amalgam is the biggest contribution she has and it's only to force Atalante into conflict with Jeanne, which she already was, but this time without any chance to voice a viewpoint more complex than dying children being sad. I can't say I appreciate having one of the characters involved in the final conflicts of the story completely removed from whatever nuance they could have had.

    Thematically she fits, I'll give you that, but once again I don't think any of the merit is in her Servant design. In a "story about wishes" she's pretty much just the early representation that the wishes of the dead shouldn't interfere with the living. She's there to prep for Amakusa but... For what purpose? Neither Jeanne nor Sieg change their stances in any significant way after meeting her, their response to Amakusa's wish would be the same with or without her presence and, even if it did, is that in any way connected to her Servant self? Her tied to her backstory sure, and the fact she's a bunch of wraiths is part of it, but in what interesting way is it used? She could be a single dead kid and the result would be the same.
    Last edited by pinetree; November 5th, 2024 at 08:21 PM.

  2. #38982
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Dark Squirrel's Avatar
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    I now realise that as much as Avicebron served to fill the Caster!Gilles expy role, he actually is interesting in being a Caster who can't cast spells, needs prep time and ingredients to do anything, and whose NP is a thing he could never achieve while alive and for which he is willing to do anything up to and including betraying his Master and using them as a core.
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  3. #38983
    Apocrypha may be a turd but unbiased evaluation in the evolving context of the fateshit cinematic universe reframes it as the platonic ideal of mid.

    It lacks the ambition to innovate on the premise and has little capacity for character or theme but there's enough self-awareness to stay in its lane, smash some action figures together, toss up a derivative endgame and have no pretensions to being a serious TM story.

    It also isn't aggressively stupid, how much fateshit can claim that?

  4. #38984
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    It sure is a recycled MMO plot!
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  5. #38985
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Kamera's Avatar
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    It probably would've been better off as an upcoming (never) MMO concept only mentioned in material books and offhand references.

  6. #38986
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors UnlimitedBladeWorks's Avatar
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    IIRC much of Apocrypha's plot isn't lifted from the MMO right? The MMO was going to be closer to GO.

  7. #38987
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Kamera's Avatar
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    Much of the mediocre Fate works is honestly constrained by the fact that neither LNs nor soshages are the best media to convey the work and that the many of it are stuff that are salvaged from various scrapped video game projects.

  8. #38988
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    It also isn't aggressively stupid, how much fateshit can claim that?
    At least aggressively stupid can still be interesting for what it does. Milquetoast media that just goes in one ear and out the other always feels like a bigger waste of time.
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  9. #38989
    Quote Originally Posted by Mattias View Post
    At least aggressively stupid can still be interesting for what it does. Milquetoast media that just goes in one ear and out the other always feels like a bigger waste of time.
    There are vast swathes of franchises built upon intellectual properties of negligible value for one to have their fill of generic anime trash. Type-Moon did not have to become a mobage company with an endlessly self-referential IP expansion mill of spinoff slop, because what it had to offer was both tangibly different and infinitely better. That's the real waste, innit?

  10. #38990
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Ideofago's Avatar
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    I would have agreed with the general sentiment like 3 years ago but considering TsukiRE is no longer a meme and hasn't been for a while, I think F/GO and the rest can be comfortably ignored, as I do. (Yes, Tsukihime is technically a different franchise, but there is still hope in the horizon is my main point).
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  11. #38991
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Paulie25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinetree View Post
    snip
    Fair. I didn’t really mean for my original comment to be super deep honestly I just thought Jack was one of the more notable characters from Apocrypha that I wanted to mention in response to Dullahan’s comment about Mordred. Sorry if I said something silly.
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  12. #38992
    Being aggressively stupid is a virtue. At least it will be remembered through memes and shit. Strange fake is sorta stupid..it will be remembered unlike apocrypha that will be forgotten and erased.

  13. #38993
    You guys really hate Fate/Apocrypha, jeez.
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  14. #38994
    No, they hate everything which isn't Tsukihime. Whenever le epic turkeyhandle isn't the focus of discussion, they have to express their hatred for that focus.

  15. #38995
    初代 The Initial Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by type:other View Post
    No, they hate everything which isn't Tsukihime. Whenever le epic turkeyhandle isn't the focus of discussion, they have to express their hatred for that focus.
    I guess it's easier to live in a reality where this simple explanation is enough to satisfy you.

  16. #38996
    No, it's just quite simple to observe patterns. Stay Night is 2/3rds slop, Extraverse is slop, Zero is slop, Apocrypha is slop, Grand Order is slop, Prisma is slop, Redline is slop, Strange Fake is slop, Samurai Remnant is slop, Prototype Fragments is slop, even most Melty Blood entries are slop - I wonder what it is they even like about Type Moon? About 10 of you have actually read Kara no Kyoukai, it can't be that. Hmm.

    I hate Apocrypha, by the way; this isn't about that.

  17. #38997
    Drunk Anime Is The True Path. Mattias's Avatar
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    Complete Material 3, Baybeeeee!!!
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  18. #38998
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by type:other View Post
    No, it's just quite simple to observe patterns. Stay Night is 2/3rds slop, Extraverse is slop, Zero is slop, Apocrypha is slop, Grand Order is slop, Prisma is slop, Redline is slop, Strange Fake is slop, Samurai Remnant is slop, Prototype Fragments is slop, even most Melty Blood entries are slop - I wonder what it is they even like about Type Moon? About 10 of you have actually read Kara no Kyoukai, it can't be that. Hmm.
    You exaggerate. We have profound disagreements about which 2/3 of FSN is slop.
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  19. #38999
    Quote Originally Posted by type:other View Post
    No, it's just quite simple to observe patterns. Stay Night is 2/3rds slop, Extraverse is slop, Zero is slop, Apocrypha is slop, Grand Order is slop, Prisma is slop, Redline is slop, Strange Fake is slop, Samurai Remnant is slop, Prototype Fragments is slop, even most Melty Blood entries are slop - I wonder what it is they even like about Type Moon? About 10 of you have actually read Kara no Kyoukai, it can't be that. Hmm.

    I hate Apocrypha, by the way; this isn't about that.
    The hmm just ties it all together, mwah

  20. #39000
    夜魔 Nightmare Levin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by type:other View Post
    No, it's just quite simple to observe patterns. Stay Night is 2/3rds slop, Extraverse is slop, Zero is slop, Apocrypha is slop, Grand Order is slop, Prisma is slop, Redline is slop, Strange Fake is slop, Samurai Remnant is slop, Prototype Fragments is slop, even most Melty Blood entries are slop - I wonder what it is they even like about Type Moon? About 10 of you have actually read Kara no Kyoukai, it can't be that. Hmm.

    I hate Apocrypha, by the way; this isn't about that.
    And don't forget about El-Melloi slop.

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