At that point I feel like it's more appropriate to focus on how much that is still being pushed as a mechanic of the system today, though. We all know there are a bunch of stuff in FSN that were applicable one or two times, in one or two stories, then never to be seen again (especially in FGO), but that also begs the question of whether they're still also bringing it up. If they don't bring it up in a new story, then does it really matter?
Originally Posted by Mcjon01
Maybe, but like Jeanne, his strongest move would basically be a kamikaze.
That is very true.
I myself have said original language has been dropped, as the appropriate times it comes up have appeared and it has not been mentioned once.
But then you get the awkward part where ideas around it or events around said idea still exist, like the guy is still referenced and knk 6 still happened
Like at least some parts of gils lore probably dont exist anymore or are more questionable, for example we dont really see any big magic/magi-tech/tech craftsman in babylonia, we just see stuff derived from the gate and maybe one or two things gil copies from chaldea, so I think its not wrong to say the idea of it being some future-tech producing place has been dropped since CCC (since all we see are ballista yet apparently he takes any cool tech crafted....)
Road of babylon has been 100% dropped, it only came up as a blurb in old mats.
But there is a lot of lore that is ambigious, especially as some of it doesnt technically contradict or violate anything explicitly but is more a vibe or logic issue (why didnt x come up at y)
This is not a hypothetical. Check Create a servant 3.
Call me 想φαγω.
Spoiler:
A thread consisting entirely of hypotheticals?
Its like the imaginary element clearly
Thanks for letting me explain my thoughts, al to of my issues are comminucation wise
I've played and watched it yes.
No I don't actually.
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I just wanted you to explain exactly what you were referring to in more detail.
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Also if there's anything to complain about how Gil is handled or written, the fact that any servant or creature can withstand Enuma Elish outside of Enkidu is pretty annoying. What with all the talk of ripping apart the reality marble of the world itself or w/e the exact explanation is. Just feels like Gil was intended to be the strongest and then they realize oh shit it's a franchise now.
Another one of F/GO's biggest weaknesses is that Nasu is not as strong as Kojima at retconning.
Call me 想φαγω.
Spoiler:
I mean yeah, kojima loves things like unrelaible narrator and such which gives him room, nasu says things explicitely and has a bunch of WOG materials and interviews to also point to, nasu doesnt even have the dc/marvel defense of 'this has been writen by 50+ writers over 80 years'
On gate of babylon, from how I see it, if its retroactive and it has all the tech of future humanity, and has all NPs, and the tech COUNTS as a NP (this is more me guessing on this part)
Then I see gil/GoB as a triumph of magic over tech because it gets to have its cake and eat it, it gets tech, it gets to keep all the magic tools at the same time.
Of course there is also the issue of "gob doesnt have beast Nps right?.. right??" or trying to have the retroactive part mesh with gil not having NPs like avalon or vasavi shakti.
Basically, in UBW, Gil killed Illya. Illya is my favorite in original SN. Therefore, I'm perfectly willing to destroy something that I myself declared a paradise just for something as personal and petty as revenge. None of that Shirou-level justice at all for me. As for "oh, shit, it's a franchise", I'm pretty sure that was an issue when TM realized that Fate/zero doesn't quite follow the actual prologue of F/SN.
That's the thing, UBW Gilgamesh doesn't feel like regular Gilgamesh because that "bring out the true personality" of someone side of his character isn't there. The reasoning for fucking up the world to make people struggle more and be less slothful is acceptable but so much less interesting than practically every other iteration of Gilgamesh. As much as I like him I get completely different emotional reactions to seeing him in CCC (best Gil content) to Zero (pretty good) to UBW (meh). I understand he has a specific role to play in each situation, and the amount of free room his personality and lore gives to Fate authors is probably why he keeps showing up in stuff like CCC or Kaleid (kind of) or Strange Fake, or Babylonia, but at some point I would prefer to have him be written a bit more consistently so I can fanboy over him in everything as opposed to prefer specific interpretations over others.
Especially since all the interpretations share the surface level traits like proud, greedy, fickle, strong, etc but might not necessarily capture what makes him tick and intriguing.
UBW is my favorite route but simultaneously has my least favorite Gil with the least interesting characterization.
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In the same sense I feel like if Gil was written similarly to how he is in CCC, he would make a pretty interesting partner to UBW Shirou because watching someone struggle for something that defines them is something Gilgamesh is entertained by and could even grow to respect.
Such difference in Gil's characterization probably stems from Nasu not initially planning on him showing up more outside the original FSN. Once he decided to use more Gil in future works he also decided to expand his personality more so he wasn't so one-note villainous.
Between that and just killing him off in HF like nobody's business it feels like the AUO got the short end of the stick in the best fate work, that being the og vn.
Is it a short stick to be a relatively one track boss? Not like Gil is Sakura or Kirei. Besides, he at least got expanded upon later on.
On a completely different misc thought:
https://i.imgur.com/DJzhuOt.png
https://i.imgur.com/9WVNM37.jpg
My theory is this blond guy in IH is Hephaestion because he's consistently shown in either the front or standing closest to Iskandar. My only hangup is his hair being a different color than Faker's but it's not as if siblings can't have different hair colors.
On faker
Would the differnece between faker vs pretender is the Time of when the deception occurs, i know the pretender explanation is a thing but this is more a thought
Faker is a thing in life, vs pretender is something as a servant
Realistically it's more so inconvenient for my favorite Fate to have the worst version of one of my favorite characters, that's all.
What did you think of Fate route Gil? He was always my favorite but people usually put UBW Gil ahead of him.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
I'm going to have to be honest and say that it's been so long since I've read the Fate route I don't have a competent answer for that. Though I do remember that scene where he shows up unexpectedly at night and skewers Saber being a scene I really appreciated the writing/execution of. It's actually one of the things I look forward to in my soon-ish reread, observing Gil and Kirei from that route with all the knowledge I have now.
Do people really like UBW the best? Fate Gil is so much better, it's not even comparable to me.
Between Fate and UBW, Fate has the best antagonists by far tbh.
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