The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

That could be the case, and given that, it seems likely it will never become Magecraft.

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That being said, Nasu has already built his system on both Platonic ideas about forms and concepts and Buddhist ideas on reincarnation and the self, two systems that in their entirety contradict each other in many important ways.

[Byegod]

Maybe, that is a interesting idea or angle to look at it through?

I hope i dont come off as bad faith

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Nah, you were good faith this time.

[Ideofago]

Nasu also has a most ecletic depicition of Medusa with fanfic up the wazoo and mech greek gods. Nothing's here in its entirety.

[Byegod]

True but there is focus on some ideas over others

Buddhism being one of the bigger things he likes, taoism a bit below it... im not sure where i put shinto since while there is a lot of jp servants it feels more like there Japanese servants then shinto, if that makes sense

[aldeayeah]

Also what is this Shirou's identity dying in a fire stuff when Shirou remembers his past before the disaster?

It's literally the first scene in day 1 in FSN man

https://youtube.com/watch?v=sl21ShE6tbI&t=180

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

It's literally the first scene in day 1 in FSN man

Among many, many other scenes.

[AAM1232]

Emiya Shirou's Origin is Sword, so his attribute as a mage also becomes Sword.

Is this correct? I don't think there's any causation suggested there after asking around. Even the old translation of that part of CM3 doesn't suggest causation.

[Byegod]

Personally i wonder how certain magics work in the past like in babylonia, there is no foundation.

Even if we exclusde servants we still got ritsuka and magitek stuff from chaldea.

[Kamera]

That could be the case, and given that, it seems likely it will never become Magecraft.

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That being said, Nasu has already built his system on both Platonic ideas about forms and concepts and Buddhist ideas on reincarnation and the self, two systems that in their entirety contradict each other in many important ways.

Third Magic is reduced to just magecraft in Fate/Extra

Soul [Circumstances]
A soul resides in all life forms that are intelligent. It is spiritual life that is not part of any physical phenomenon.
In the world of EXTRA it is said to be the source that enables a container to have life.
In the past, in the medical community, it was thought that the body = life, and the body was an output device needed to power the soul. Without a living body, a soul could not be generated.
However, in the magus community the opposite was thought to be true. The soul is a “will” that lies in another dimension, and that will occupies a body.
Which school of thought is correct still remains unknown today, however in the world of EXTRA Pseudo-Spiritron Theory has been established. From this theory it became clear that the soul can activate even without a physical body, and as such the soul has come to be treated as “the source of a person.”

[Byegod]

I actually asked 'you' about this

But the question is what is third magic as if that is true then why can souls be deleted in extra? or corrupted, ect

When the whole immortality seems to a side effect of the true magic itself, plus you'd think they would mention this in fgo as the hackers exist in fgo timeline as well.

(is any of this wrong)

[Kamera]

Personally i wonder how certain magics work in the past like in babylonia, there is no foundation.

Age of God magus got their magics directly from the Gods

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But the question is what is third magic as if that is true then why can souls be deleted in extra? or corrupted, ect
(is any of this wrong)

Because the souls in Extra are literally inside a computer

[Byegod]

lemme rephrase, if they cracked the third.

Why can they be deleted in the first place? since it seems magic is at beast tier stuff considering kiara and goetia either use a piece or were gonna achieve something similar

[Kamera]

True Magic is just something that current science can't explain or replicate. Just because they cracked the nature of souls doesn't mean that everyone suddenly can use Third Magic and got their souls immortalized.

[Herod]

lemme rephrase, if they cracked the third.

Why can they be deleted in the first place?

Why should they not? What do you think third magic is?

[Byegod]

If i had to phrase it, part of this is just based on "vibes" or how I feel and partially baed on the "Gravitas" they give the third magic and what we Have seen of it.

Kiara has a EX rank np based on a partial use of it or whatever, zouken wanted it for immortality and to either stop OR undo his soul decay, plus a few other things that It feels weird if you can still just simply delete or fuck with the soul

Plus the other details like it being put in a higher dimension and it becoming a perpetual motion machine as a simple side effect that it feels fucking weird to compare the hacking to it especially as they call it "True immorality" or whatever IN one of the mat books

"https://www.tmdict.com/en/ta.third-magic

Heaven’s Feel, the Cup of Heaven. For further details about it, you should either play the Heaven’s Feel route in the game Fate/stay night or, if you’re patient, wait for the animated film version of it.
…Well, I’ll touch upon it lightly at least. It is a mystery that exists in a different dimension from magecraft, one of the final goals that magi seek. Impossible feats that cannot be accomplished in the current era no matter how much time or budget you devote are called magic.
There are currently five magic in total. The third amongst them—that which the Einzberns have sought for two thousand years is the Third Magic, “Heaven’s Feel.” It is true, unquestionable immortality accomplished by materializing the soul. It is definitely a miracle that would undoubtedly result in the salvation of humanity should it be implemented. Sieg is unmistakably evil for having stolen away the possibility of making it a reality."

Anyone got any other sources or talks from FSN or whatever

[Comun]

Is this correct? I don't think there's any causation suggested there after asking around. Even the old translation of that part of CM3 doesn't suggest causation.

衛宮士郎の起源は剣であり "Emiya Shirou's Origin is Sword". Affirmation with no room for questioning.
魔術師としての属性も剣になる "his attribute as a mage also becomes Sword". The choice of "becomes" as the verb indicates change, with the cause of the change omitted because it's already provided by by the text's contextual clues.
起源そのものが属性となっている場合がある "their own Origin can become their attribute". Contextual clue connecting A to B.

[Kamera]

If i had to phrase it, part of this is just based on "vibes" or how I feel and partially baed on the "Gravitas" they give the third magic and what we Have seen of it.

Kiara has a EX rank np based on a partial use of it or whatever, zouken wanted it for immortality and to either stop OR undo his soul decay, plus a few other things that It feels weird if you can still just simply delete or fuck with the soul

Plus the other details like it being put in a higher dimension and it becoming a perpetual motion machine as a simple side effect that it feels fucking weird to compare the hacking to it especially as they call it "True immorality" or whatever IN one of the mat books

True Magic is just something that current science can't explain or replicate. Just because they cracked the nature of souls doesn't mean that everyone suddenly can use Third Magic and got their souls immortalized.

.

[Leftovers]

If i had to phrase it, part of this is just based on "vibes" or how I feel and partially baed on the "Gravitas" they give the third magic and what we Have seen of it.

Kiara has a EX rank np based on a partial use of it or whatever, zouken wanted it for immortality and to either stop OR undo his soul decay, plus a few other things that It feels weird if you can still just simply delete or fuck with the soul

Plus the other details like it being put in a higher dimension and it becoming a perpetual motion machine as a simple side effect that it feels fucking weird to compare the hacking to it especially as they call it "True immorality" or whatever IN one of the mat books

"https://www.tmdict.com/en/ta.third-magic

Heaven’s Feel, the Cup of Heaven. For further details about it, you should either play the Heaven’s Feel route in the game Fate/stay night or, if you’re patient, wait for the animated film version of it.
…Well, I’ll touch upon it lightly at least. It is a mystery that exists in a different dimension from magecraft, one of the final goals that magi seek. Impossible feats that cannot be accomplished in the current era no matter how much time or budget you devote are called magic.
There are currently five magic in total. The third amongst them—that which the Einzberns have sought for two thousand years is the Third Magic, “Heaven’s Feel.” It is true, unquestionable immortality accomplished by materializing the soul. It is definitely a miracle that would undoubtedly result in the salvation of humanity should it be implemented. Sieg is unmistakably evil for having stolen away the possibility of making it a reality."

Anyone got any other sources or talks from FSN or whatever

Digitisation of the soul isn't the exact same thing as materialisation in the Heaven's Feel sense, but transmuting your soul into spirit particles to act independently of your body and interact with the Reality Marble of the Moon Cell is close enough as far as wizards are concerned. Specifically the "soul operates outside the body" part.

Something that digitalises the soul, the root and core of all things. Frankly, a concept that should be called the soul; in other words it is the ‘primordial form of existence’ that can unite all elements. It is something that digitalises a figurative concept and make it materialise, and can also be interpreted as information with life energy, data that gained life. Of course, etherising the soul requires ridiculously large processing powers and memory storage that’s too big even for cloud computing service. A technology that simplified these steps and solely uses the power of the human will to etherise the soul has also been acknowledged as existing.

[AAM1232]

衛宮士郎の起源は剣であり "Emiya Shirou's Origin is Sword". Affirmation with no room for questioning.
魔術師としての属性も剣になる "his attribute as a mage also becomes Sword". The choice of "becomes" as the verb indicates change, with the cause of the change omitted because it's already provided by by the text's contextual clues.
起源そのものが属性となっている場合がある "their own Origin can become their attribute". Contextual clue connecting A to B.

There's also earlier context that origins can be used to denote alignments. Since the first part isn't saying his Origin became sword, and along with other info given that suggests any changes with Shirou to be about his magecraft/circuits, I really can't see all this to be suggesting Avalon changed his Origin and alignment, instead of only changing the alignment, the latter of which we are told flatout is possible with Sakura. Feels a little like forcing a conclusion to me.