The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[AAM1232]

Ah yes, the insulter feels insulted. How amazingly boring.

[Kamera]

just gonsoom produgs and don't ask guestions :DDDD

[Dullahan]

Yes - it's boring. It 'bores' you, that someone keeps banging on with the same old complaints about FGO. It doesn't affront you, it doesn't anger, it doesn't incense - it 'bores'. Why? This is something which should be examined closely. Why is something boring? Because you've heard it all before. You know this already. It bores you that someone, in persisting with this old chestnut, seems to considers you an utter naif who doesn't know what's wrong with FGO and needs to be educated - because, indeed (as I agree with you here) you aren't. Like a kid in class hearing a lesson far below his level. Like being taught arithmetic when you're in pre-calc. It's 'boring'. You know all this. You've heard it before. You know he's not going to say anything new - in fact, before he even opens his mouth about FGO you have a pretty good idea exactly what he's going to say. So it bores you. You are not naive. You know already all the plausible issues one could take with FGO; you engage with it in full recognition of these. Your enjoyment(?) of FGO is to be separated from those who (naively) get completely obsessed with it, gacha-addicts, coomers, whatever. You are too clever for that; you already know the system is rigged. You are too clever to take it seriously. You interact with the system under this assumption. You use FGO modestly, carefully, not dropping $100k on it like some idiot; yours is a moderated, reasonable gameplay experience. You input money into the system when it's reasonable to do so, and generally speaking, you get the best of the transaction when you do. You don't put in more money than you think the fun you get out of it is worth. To do so would be absurd - as you already know.

Enough has been said about the practical indistinguishability of 'ironic' (at any level) playing of FGO from notional 'unironic' (likewise) playing of FGO. What I would like to point out here is that this formal structure of interaction with FGO as a system is mirrored on the level of content. This is how FGO in general is experienced: not as an ongoing adventure into new horizons, to new experiences, new ideas, but as something captured the moment it appears within the structure of what you 'already know'. When new LBs drop, what do people ask - but how does this fit in to the 'lore', how does it refer to, connect to, make use of, the 'already known'? This is asked because it is a question the writing of TM works has accustomed people to, in what I have elsewhere referred to as 'rinspeak' - this register in which any phenomenon which appears in the narrative is inevitably captured and securely fixed in the signifying web of the system of 'lore'. There is never anything strange or inexplicable in TM narratives; even if the discourse which does so is somewhat tepid and pathetic, there is always, always, an accompanying discourse to any given phenomenon which 'explains what is going on' in terms of the 'lore' (in FSN this was, as the name implies, usually rin). A TM narrative which was start to finish unexplained would be poorly received by such an audience, which has been trained to receive narratives only insofar as they are placed within the superstructure of the 'lore' by rinspeak; when people complain about lostbelts being retarded (an understandable problem to have) they are only infrequently really complaining about the LB as such. More often it is about the pathetic or lazy efforts made to 'capture' the narrative events within 'lore', that is, with how well the writers have managed to make the narrative something which can be unproblematically assimilated to what is 'already known', the symbolic architecture of the 'TM setting'. The ideal consumer of FGO is one who is always slightly 'bored'. FGO produces and depends on 'bored' players because only a subtle baseline of boredom permits one to enjoy a story which tries to guarantee that you 'already know' what you're getting, in some sense, no matter what they put out.

This, incidentally, is precisely why I would like horror - because horror is basically concerned with things that exceed symbolisation, and is the very antithesis of that 'rinspeak' which always seeks to return narrative phenomena to the symbolic web of the setting.

[AAM1232]

I don't think this view of interaction with FGO is as ubiquitous as you think among players. But that's just my feelings so take it with some salt and make what you will of it.

[asterism42]

Now, you see, I did include the word 'consciously' in my statement in order to ward off pre-emptively people whose two collective neurons would rub together and make the connection "hurr durr dullahan not like the fgo thing, but fgo is the big thing, thus this is horror yes?" but clearly, given that several have done this, the average reading-comprehension level is no greater than that of the NA localisers.

Oh, sorry for misunderstanding you. I don't speak pretentious asshole.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes - it's boring. It 'bores' you, that someone keeps banging on with the same old complaints about FGO. It doesn't affront you, it doesn't anger, it doesn't incense - it 'bores'. Why? This is something which should be examined closely. Why is something boring? Because you've heard it all before. You know this already. It bores you that someone, in persisting with this old chestnut, seems to considers you an utter naif who doesn't know what's wrong with FGO and needs to be educated - because, indeed (as I agree with you here) you aren't. Like a kid in class hearing a lesson far below his level. Like being taught arithmetic when you're in pre-calc. It's 'boring'. You know all this. You've heard it before. You know he's not going to say anything new - in fact, before he even opens his mouth about FGO you have a pretty good idea exactly what he's going to say. So it bores you. You are not naive. You know already all the plausible issues one could take with FGO; you engage with it in full recognition of these. Your enjoyment(?) of FGO is to be separated from those who (naively) get completely obsessed with it, gacha-addicts, coomers, whatever. You are too clever for that; you already know the system is rigged. You are too clever to take it seriously. You interact with the system under this assumption. You use FGO modestly, carefully, not dropping $100k on it like some idiot; yours is a moderated, reasonable gameplay experience. You input money into the system when it's reasonable to do so, and generally speaking, you get the best of the transaction when you do. You don't put in more money than you think the fun you get out of it is worth. To do so would be absurd - as you already know.

No, it's boring because you functionally said something identical the last time this was brought up. And the time before that. And the time before that.

Like a teacher who gives a lesson on arithmetic and then gives the exact same lesson the following week.

[Comun]

This isn't how I expected to figure out I dislike horror because it's build up without pay off but I won't complain about this bit of self-realization.

[Mcjon01]

I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end

[AAM1232]

I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end

Not everyone is impatient or intolerant.

[Comun]

I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end

I wouldn't think so. Even though Dullahan's content is terribly negative and disagreeable to most, he writes them with enough theatrics to make the read enjoyable at least on a "style over substance" level. I personally only skip it when he's quoteblocking a thesis instead of bringing in his own original prose.

[Zurvan]

9 times out of 10 I just skip reading this thread altogether

[asterism42]

I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end

I don't normally but did in this case because I was just accused of not reading his posts properly.

[Ratman]

I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end

I read them religiously.

[Blastedspider]

This is how FGO in general is experienced: not as an ongoing adventure into new horizons, to new experiences, new ideas, but as something captured the moment it appears within the structure of what you 'already know'.

Well, it's not really something new, at least not completely. Look at the name: the "Fate/" part signifies continuity and existence of tradition so to speak. But it is not completely devoid of new and strange, it's just that after such elements are introduced they're subsequently incorporated into a pre-existing context. It's comparable to solving a puzzle that continues to expand as this happens (and people ask questions mostly because they can't experience the game first-hand for one reason or another). Then again I don't think that a typical F/GO player is interested in that aspect (at least I don't observe it).

A TM narrative which was start to finish unexplained would be poorly received by such an audience, which has been trained to receive narratives only insofar as they are placed within the superstructure of the 'lore' by rinspeak;

That's unlikely. Similar attitudes exist in regards to other fictional works (sometimes in the absence of any connection between them), so it is probably a naturally-occurring preference.

[Byegod]

My eyes kinda blur with his walls of texts tbh, even though at times i agree with some of what he says.

[aldeayeah]

I read them religiously.

I keep a tissue box handy.

[Roxas]

[Dullahan]

why is the oni a dinosaur exactly

[asterism42]

for the same reason the spaceship is a shota, I expect

[Comun]

why is the oni a dinosaur exactly

She can transform through sorcery and chose specifically a dino because she wanted her Class to be Berserker.

[Dullahan]

but why a dinosaur