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Thread: The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

  1. #30561
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Ah yes, the insulter feels insulted. How amazingly boring.

  2. #30562
    夜・露・死・苦! Kamerad's Avatar
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    just gonsoom produgs and don't ask guestions :DDDD

  3. #30563
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    Yes - it's boring. It 'bores' you, that someone keeps banging on with the same old complaints about FGO. It doesn't affront you, it doesn't anger, it doesn't incense - it 'bores'. Why? This is something which should be examined closely. Why is something boring? Because you've heard it all before. You know this already. It bores you that someone, in persisting with this old chestnut, seems to considers you an utter naif who doesn't know what's wrong with FGO and needs to be educated - because, indeed (as I agree with you here) you aren't. Like a kid in class hearing a lesson far below his level. Like being taught arithmetic when you're in pre-calc. It's 'boring'. You know all this. You've heard it before. You know he's not going to say anything new - in fact, before he even opens his mouth about FGO you have a pretty good idea exactly what he's going to say. So it bores you. You are not naive. You know already all the plausible issues one could take with FGO; you engage with it in full recognition of these. Your enjoyment(?) of FGO is to be separated from those who (naively) get completely obsessed with it, gacha-addicts, coomers, whatever. You are too clever for that; you already know the system is rigged. You are too clever to take it seriously. You interact with the system under this assumption. You use FGO modestly, carefully, not dropping $100k on it like some idiot; yours is a moderated, reasonable gameplay experience. You input money into the system when it's reasonable to do so, and generally speaking, you get the best of the transaction when you do. You don't put in more money than you think the fun you get out of it is worth. To do so would be absurd - as you already know.

    Enough has been said about the practical indistinguishability of 'ironic' (at any level) playing of FGO from notional 'unironic' (likewise) playing of FGO. What I would like to point out here is that this formal structure of interaction with FGO as a system is mirrored on the level of content. This is how FGO in general is experienced: not as an ongoing adventure into new horizons, to new experiences, new ideas, but as something captured the moment it appears within the structure of what you 'already know'. When new LBs drop, what do people ask - but how does this fit in to the 'lore', how does it refer to, connect to, make use of, the 'already known'? This is asked because it is a question the writing of TM works has accustomed people to, in what I have elsewhere referred to as 'rinspeak' - this register in which any phenomenon which appears in the narrative is inevitably captured and securely fixed in the signifying web of the system of 'lore'. There is never anything strange or inexplicable in TM narratives; even if the discourse which does so is somewhat tepid and pathetic, there is always, always, an accompanying discourse to any given phenomenon which 'explains what is going on' in terms of the 'lore' (in FSN this was, as the name implies, usually rin). A TM narrative which was start to finish unexplained would be poorly received by such an audience, which has been trained to receive narratives only insofar as they are placed within the superstructure of the 'lore' by rinspeak; when people complain about lostbelts being retarded (an understandable problem to have) they are only infrequently really complaining about the LB as such. More often it is about the pathetic or lazy efforts made to 'capture' the narrative events within 'lore', that is, with how well the writers have managed to make the narrative something which can be unproblematically assimilated to what is 'already known', the symbolic architecture of the 'TM setting'. The ideal consumer of FGO is one who is always slightly 'bored'. FGO produces and depends on 'bored' players because only a subtle baseline of boredom permits one to enjoy a story which tries to guarantee that you 'already know' what you're getting, in some sense, no matter what they put out.

    This, incidentally, is precisely why I would like horror - because horror is basically concerned with things that exceed symbolisation, and is the very antithesis of that 'rinspeak' which always seeks to return narrative phenomena to the symbolic web of the setting.
    うん
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  4. #30564
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    I don't think this view of interaction with FGO is as ubiquitous as you think among players. But that's just my feelings so take it with some salt and make what you will of it.

  5. #30565
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    Now, you see, I did include the word 'consciously' in my statement in order to ward off pre-emptively people whose two collective neurons would rub together and make the connection "hurr durr dullahan not like the fgo thing, but fgo is the big thing, thus this is horror yes?" but clearly, given that several have done this, the average reading-comprehension level is no greater than that of the NA localisers.
    Oh, sorry for misunderstanding you. I don't speak pretentious asshole.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    Yes - it's boring. It 'bores' you, that someone keeps banging on with the same old complaints about FGO. It doesn't affront you, it doesn't anger, it doesn't incense - it 'bores'. Why? This is something which should be examined closely. Why is something boring? Because you've heard it all before. You know this already. It bores you that someone, in persisting with this old chestnut, seems to considers you an utter naif who doesn't know what's wrong with FGO and needs to be educated - because, indeed (as I agree with you here) you aren't. Like a kid in class hearing a lesson far below his level. Like being taught arithmetic when you're in pre-calc. It's 'boring'. You know all this. You've heard it before. You know he's not going to say anything new - in fact, before he even opens his mouth about FGO you have a pretty good idea exactly what he's going to say. So it bores you. You are not naive. You know already all the plausible issues one could take with FGO; you engage with it in full recognition of these. Your enjoyment(?) of FGO is to be separated from those who (naively) get completely obsessed with it, gacha-addicts, coomers, whatever. You are too clever for that; you already know the system is rigged. You are too clever to take it seriously. You interact with the system under this assumption. You use FGO modestly, carefully, not dropping $100k on it like some idiot; yours is a moderated, reasonable gameplay experience. You input money into the system when it's reasonable to do so, and generally speaking, you get the best of the transaction when you do. You don't put in more money than you think the fun you get out of it is worth. To do so would be absurd - as you already know.
    No, it's boring because you functionally said something identical the last time this was brought up. And the time before that. And the time before that.

    Like a teacher who gives a lesson on arithmetic and then gives the exact same lesson the following week.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  6. #30566
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    This isn't how I expected to figure out I dislike horror because it's build up without pay off but I won't complain about this bit of self-realization.

  7. #30567
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end

  8. #30568
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors AAM1232's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end
    Not everyone is impatient or intolerant.

  9. #30569
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end
    I wouldn't think so. Even though Dullahan's content is terribly negative and disagreeable to most, he writes them with enough theatrics to make the read enjoyable at least on a "style over substance" level. I personally only skip it when he's quoteblocking a thesis instead of bringing in his own original prose.

  10. #30570
    9 times out of 10 I just skip reading this thread altogether

  11. #30571
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end
    I don't normally but did in this case because I was just accused of not reading his posts properly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  12. #30572
    muh vampires Ratman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    I bet nobody but me reads every word of Dullahan’s posts instead of skipping to the end
    I read them religiously.

  13. #30573
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Blastedspider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    This is how FGO in general is experienced: not as an ongoing adventure into new horizons, to new experiences, new ideas, but as something captured the moment it appears within the structure of what you 'already know'.
    Well, it's not really something new, at least not completely. Look at the name: the "Fate/" part signifies continuity and existence of tradition so to speak. But it is not completely devoid of new and strange, it's just that after such elements are introduced they're subsequently incorporated into a pre-existing context. It's comparable to solving a puzzle that continues to expand as this happens (and people ask questions mostly because they can't experience the game first-hand for one reason or another). Then again I don't think that a typical F/GO player is interested in that aspect (at least I don't observe it).


    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    A TM narrative which was start to finish unexplained would be poorly received by such an audience, which has been trained to receive narratives only insofar as they are placed within the superstructure of the 'lore' by rinspeak;
    That's unlikely. Similar attitudes exist in regards to other fictional works (sometimes in the absence of any connection between them), so it is probably a naturally-occurring preference.
    Last edited by Blastedspider; May 23rd, 2020 at 09:04 AM.

  14. #30574
    My eyes kinda blur with his walls of texts tbh, even though at times i agree with some of what he says.

  15. #30575
    HSTP 500 Internal S ervant  Error aldeayeah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
    I read them religiously.
    I keep a tissue box handy.
    As the size of an explosion increases, the number of social situations it is incapable of solving approaches zero.

  16. #30576
    『It's not my fault』 Roxas's Avatar
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  17. #30577
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    why is the oni a dinosaur exactly
    うん
    しゅん

    じゅ


  18. #30578
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    for the same reason the spaceship is a shota, I expect
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  19. #30579
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Comun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dullahan View Post
    why is the oni a dinosaur exactly
    She can transform through sorcery and chose specifically a dino because she wanted her Class to be Berserker.

  20. #30580
    nicht mitmachen Dullahan's Avatar
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    but why a dinosaur
    うん
    しゅん

    じゅ


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