The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I'm just saying, both Altera and Regigigas are sealed titans whose remains were found in a Temple and who were feared by humanity, though again, Deoxys does fit better as the alien threat to Earth. Aegislash basically embodies Knight of Owner and For Someone's Glory, and Hinako and Houndoom have little in common aside from color scheme.

[Reign]

For a second I thought this was the Badass VS thread and we were doing Altera vs Regigigas.

[Wallacia]

I can't help but theorize nowadays that FSN HGW wasn't a *proper HGW*. and Yes, I know that the first Two weren't proper either due to being unsupervised but it's not like the church supervision toned it down much judging from the third HGW. that wasn't exactly what i'm referring to, but rather that in all HGWs, there were always 7 human masters and 7 servants.

It's one of the reasons why the church would hunt down a DA/vampire if they decided to participate as a preventing measure from letting the HGW fall off into the wrong hands, or how Kirei turned 180° by mid fingering medea when recognizing that she fooled him to green-lit the ritual. and despite kirei having 0 stakes, He still endangers himself through putting a fight against a literal not so bad servant, and that made me wonder why!

is it because of his role as a church supervisor or perhaps refusing to hand over the Grail to yet another fool with 0 knowledge that's it's a hell gate. I couldn't figure out which was which till i remembered what kiri said before, Which is that if Caster (gilles) reached the shores with his lovecraftian monster, they would have had to abandon the ritual which no one was willing to do after going that far!

so wouldn't it be logical to say that kirei had the same mindset that handing the grail to medea could result in some calamitic results, not only endangering the safety and privacy of the ritual but having to wait more years for something that might never come again.

That's how I reason kirei actions in FSN. anyways, what do you uys think?

[forumghost]

I think you need to use paragraphs next time.

Also Kirei never put himself at risk against Medea, Fate he left her alone and she got Gil'd, UBW he faked his death and sent Lancer to help Rin & Shirou because she was becoming a threat to his plans, and in HF bug-boy set's her up for immediate death by Saber and makes her his Zombie puppet.

Kirei gives Zero fucks about his role as supervisor, as shown by him assassinating the Mage Association representative (Bazett) and stealing her Servant.

All that being said, you're right at least in so far as the war being kinda a shit-show what with a Servant from the last war hanging around, The Mediator being a participant, and a Servant being a Master.

Note that 2/3 of those were directly Kirei's fault, so again, not really interested in being a fair overseer.

[Dullahan]

[Darkmaiar]

I mean, wouldn't it be accurate to say that there hasn't been a "proper HGW" since the second one?

#3: Mucked up by the Einzberns summoning an improper HS, creating an improper class (for the Fuyuki HGW, at least), and ultimately filling the cup with poison.
#4: Mucked up by aforementioned cup being filled with poison, rendering the ritual useless, and Kiri breaking the cup, ending the ritual early and causing it to be postponed rather than reset.
#5: Mucked up by said ritual being postponed, causing it to reoccur earlier than it should, and having a servant left over from the previous one to further complicate things.

Plus, Zouken's existence in general makes for the possibility of really any HGW to be mucked up since he has 1/3 admin access to manipulate the behind-the-scenes stuff and screw everybody over in doing so.

[Gold Experience]

And the 2nd one was a murderfest since Command Seals didn't exist and Servants pretty much did whatever. And the 1st one wasn't a war at all. So, technically there wasn't a "proper" war in a first place.

[Dullahan]

every magus [family] should have their own different version of a diagram like the above posted Simonian-gnostic emanationist hierarchy.
primary ontology & theorisation of the Unconditioned Ground, not chuuni eye powers & big name seiyuu OK?

[falseCeilings]

Do we ever get any of the metaphysics? Apart from the basics of the existence of the Throne, a bit about Alaya etc.

[Dullahan]

most of it's in knk, if only implicitly. but so much rinspeak only ever amounts to the broad strokes. that TM centres on the idea of an Unconditioned Ground [root, etc] does not preclude - in fact it encourages - that there should be a profusion of differing interpretations of what that Ground is, how it impinges upon the sensible universe, and how the particular Spirit/Mind/Geist participates in the universal. precisely this is the reason that there are different magi, that magi do different things, seek [ ] through different paths.

[Ratman]

Hermes Trismegistos is old and busted, Mary the Jewess when? I want citrinitas in my alchemy dammit.

[Kyte]

Waver in Case Files rambles about various esoterica and how they relate to magecraft.

[Wallacia]

I think you need to use paragraphs next time.

Also Kirei never put himself at risk against Medea, Fate he left her alone and she got Gil'd, UBW he faked his death and sent Lancer to help Rin & Shirou because she was becoming a threat to his plans, and in HF bug-boy set's her up for immediate death by Saber and makes her his Zombie puppet.

Kirei gives Zero fucks about his role as supervisor, as shown by him assassinating the Mage Association representative (Bazett) and stealing her Servant.

All that being said, you're right at least in so far as the war being kinda a shit-show what with a Servant from the last war hanging around, The Mediator being a participant, and a Servant being a Master.

Note that 2/3 of those were directly Kirei's fault, so again, not really interested in being a fair overseer.

I could swear that i paragraphed it when I corrected kiri's quoating and cited it as kirei instead, weird. Anyways, Thanks for the feedback! Fghost

I guess what bothers me is not what defines a *standard* HGW or not but rather that the church that tried to standardize it further more just let it go all to nutshell in FSN and be whatever it wants.

My Initial thoughts about this was that the they (church/association/others) tried to stray away from the kind of the 1 HGW by regulating it through multiple implantations that enforce power of the master over the servant and the stability and order/law through the church and etc.

so I felt there was an going narrative that seeks to truly standardize how a proper and improper HGW should be rather than just let them be what they are. and this proper Standpoint was semi abandoned in zero and entirely so in FSN. that's how And why I view FSN HGW as improper in the sense of relatable to the first OG HGWs than the third/fourth were.

[Wallacia]

And the 2nd one was a murderfest since Command Seals didn't exist and Servants pretty much did whatever. And the 1st one wasn't a war at all. So, technically there wasn't a "proper" war in a first place.

I have confused people I know there wasn't a proper HGW in the first place. What I meant by ''proper'' was what is considered appropriate by those who tried to regulate and stablize the HGW Rirtuals.

[Reign]

The Fourth was probably the most normal HGW until things got upended right at the end.

[Imperial]

That Tsukihime Worlds/Fate Worlds thing still doesn't jive with me. The whole Human Order Strong/Human Order Weak thing strikes me as unnecessarily complicated.

Why can't Tsuki and the original Fate works be two slices of the same pie?

We knew magi were a thing ever since Tsukihime, where they took a back seat to vampires and oni hybrids, so moving over to Fuyuki to explore the magi side of the moonlit world seemed like a natural progression.

Of course, divorcing Kara no Kyoukai and Tsukihime seems weird to me, too. The prospect of two separate Shikis from former demon-hunting families getting the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception is so unlikely that it can be said it could never happen, but Nasu already runs on incredibly improbable events thrusting normies into supernatural shenanigans.

I guess it can lead to cute little twists like Sion showing up FGO without her TATARI baggage, but so what? I get the feeling that fans of Character X would like to see more of the character they came to know and love rather than Character X run through Filter Y, making them a radically different person.

It's not RUINING THE FRANCHISE, but it does make me wonder why Nasu is jumping through all of these hoops to keep his toys in their own separate toychests when Narita is having the time of his life throwing everything into the same sandbox.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Now that I think about it, you are in a sense, right, especially since Nasu also provides for mixed worlds. Maybe he's really a fan of for want of a nail/in spite of a nail situations?

[Ratman]

Again I want to say that he wants those thematically self-contained works isolated because the meta doesn't play well with each other, and themes come first and foremost.

But then he wrote Extella.

[You]

It's not RUINING THE FRANCHISE, but it does make me wonder why Nasu is jumping through all of these hoops to keep his toys in their own separate toychests when Narita is having the time of his life throwing everything into the same sandbox.

I think it's his instinct as a DM to create these separate experiences that focus on different things but want them to be tied to each other in some way.

[Imperial]

I don't think his themes are really so disparate.

At the end of the day, his biggest works drive at the idea like what it means to be alive and the difference between living and simply existing.

See: Enjou and the apartment death loop, Shiki R. feeling lost and seeking something to make her feel alive again without her male half, Souren becoming so obsessed with death over seeing it time and again the course of his long life that he struggles to assign it some greater meaning, Shirou and the vessel full of survivor's guilty and borrowed ideals that he has become after the fire, Zouken wanting to live long enough to achieve a certain goal only to live for so long that the living becomes the goal in and of itself, Shiki T. finding comfort in his "small" and fleeting life and how that clashes with mighty immortals like Roa and Nrvnqsr, etc.

Edit: I should get around to Canaan and DDD to see how they compare and contrast.