You wouldn't definitely. But sakura knows why she did it.Originally Posted by Byegod
Sakura can't just blame others because she also holds these emotions. She is just better than every one else to be rational and control herself.
Essentially it's sakura's unconscious doing the deeds so obviously one who does the deed would hold one self accountable for it. As I mentioned earlier for a third party she would just be a victim.
I see it as the situation of Saber Alter, even if she is corrupted by Angry mango it shows that she is still herself deep down and in her actions, there is why she feels guilty, although I agree that dark sakura was a mistake for all the reasons said in this thread
Last edited by Alfredo845; February 13th, 2022 at 01:28 PM.
Might want to rephrase that last part as im having trouble parsing it
Its incredibly shaky logic and its basically going 'lol your as bad as your abuser'
If I have terrible thoughts but never act on them until im fucked with mentally its barely me but a ravening beast I wouldn't really want to be blamed
Not entirely. Her anger is real, we hear that anger, we see the sober parts she explains to Shirou, we see the emotional outburst she says to Rin. So we've seen what she feels and why.
The issue is that this was a clusterfuck that was 200 years in the making, and definitely shouldn't fall to one kid to shoulder it. Not least because in the conflict, she already got more torture than we'd give hardened serial killers both before and during the conflict, even if somebody believed justice wasn't served.
I think locking a 15 year old girl up for the rest of her life isn't really something that should be done, primarily due to the circumstances therein.
If people wanted to go that route, the Tohsaka have endangered the citizens of Fuyuki for decades by not only allowing these contests to happen in a public area with minimal safeguards, but haven't even taken real measures on their neighbors, one who has been absorbing citizens for at least a hundred years and has bodies in his mausoleum as evidence.
What I'm saying is that Sakura's bitterness is her own, but the reason why things escalated as they had were part of 200 years of crap that came to a boiling point, more than just her issues. Hell, the Einzberns will essentially fade off into the distance and can just toss some random funds for repair costs as has been done in the damage of previous wars.
Sakura is wrong to blame Rin, her thoughts about not being rescued as a betrayal from the world is irrational, but at the same time, she isn't wrong that she was born as an "inconvenience" through no fault of her own and maltreated as an convenient "asset" to be shipped off, despite what her parents intentions were, which had consequences. Consequences that ultimately had her former family label her a heretic to be disposed of.
So there is nuance in addressing her anger and bitterness.
Wasn't there some newer stuff asked about with the movie that said Saber wasn't on Sakura's side, but wanted to see her end?
It kinda takes away the takes about her just being Sakura's robot, and gives credence to the part that says she would see it through Sakura obtaining the grail, even if the result is her death.
So more of a negative version of what she had with Shirou at the end of UBW. She wanted to see the outcome for herself as a person, not just a Servant.
Last edited by Altima of the Gates; February 13th, 2022 at 01:57 PM.
About saving Shinji? Because saving Shinji in UBW wasn't about putting morality aside in order to save a loved one. He was just someone in danger. I was specifically talking about HF Shirou's moral dilemma and decision. Dark Sakura makes it easier to perceive her as someone to save rather than if she was just a character like Shinji who is a piece of shit without the need of any shadow acting on his subconscious or whatever.
Forgot to check, my bad
The others already brought it up, the Fate as naivety, Unlimited Blade Works more solid answer and culminating in HF is the correct answer
As per Nasu:
Also as per Nasu:
But then...
See, we can all be right together.
OUR answer
realtalk, there is a progression inherent to F/SN route structure which is something I admire a lot from TM with those iconic VN stories
yeah that word of god isn't what I dispute
It's not about logic tho. Only those who did it would feel it.
Guilt and atonement doesn't come from objective point of view like how you say it.
Her feelings when she killed was also her feelings it's likewise she also needs to atone for it.
You yourself can't see it in objective point of view even if everyone could.
The issue is that the entire dilemma in HF is because they have a lack of information. And so the protagonists go by what they know or perceive(although Ilya has a good deal of the knowledge already but until she really truly sets her mind against furthering the ritual, she doesn't disclose pertinent info, she even mentions it in internal monologue at one point and one bad end basically confirms it).
So although we play Shirou, we're of two different frames of reference and mindsets. We know the grail is tainted, but he doesn't. He knows instinctively that Sakura feels like the Shadow, but not why or how, Ilya knows Sakura is a grail but doesn't disclose the ritual's secrets, Rin knows about the cavern and has notes about the ritual Shirou isn't privy too. Sakura has information that Ilya is like her, but not the relevance that would give to help the situation (for instance, she says for Shirou's issue with Archer's arm her powers can't solve the root problem, so its not like she is stupid or doesn't want to help to be pampered by Senpai).
The problem is that even as collaborators, the group never really came together, not completely, and that was the reason why they ended up as they were. They were divided, and so could be easily pulled apart by Zouken and Kirei, using Sakura as the elephant in the room when she is only part of the whole of the business with this ritual, with the both of them knowingly since the 4th war, causing what would be this outcome in the 5th war.
Sakura's anger at the world may have been a spark to light the fuse(and really then only one of the lights), but the bomb was made long ago and needed to be taken care of. That's why recognizing her anger at the world as her own, but realizing that this entire business with the ritual weren't what she wished for. It'd be kinda like saying Kirei's assertion that Shirou desired a war to stroke his complex (The whole "Rejoice" business) was true.
It made me remember a line in FF14 for the latest expansion that a character talked about with people in depression, about how a deep depression can cause people to want to take everyone with them, into that void.
I think that is Sakura to a point, but the very reason I like her character is essentially what I said about Sei in another thread. She is depressed but wants to be happy, they even muse on that bit in Hollow where Medusa says that is why she likes her. She's unhappy, but wants to believe in finding happiness. You can't find better examples for that then her talk about the high jump scene, if she were who people think she is, or who they think she should have been to fit the narrative, then what she gained from that instead of a positive "keep going" would have been just anger.
Dark Sakura isn't the true her, but it is a part of her. I think that implying its the true her would be as incorrect as saying she was just a happy, saintly girl.
Its not really a correct answer. The first two can be interpreted as questions AND answers, with the last being a practical application that had another answer.
We all saw despite the extra endings added on that Shirou still had some developing to do, Nasu just also said that he'd be fine in finding that answer someday. With HF, he has to do the same thing, though I dunno if Nasu will add more to it like he did in for Fate with Last Episode or the added little short novel for UBW True.
Maybe he doesn't think it's needed or maybe he still has yet to come up with it. Or maybe he'd leave it to Sudou since iirc, they have a drama cd for things that happened in the margins of that two year time skip for HF True.
Which one's this?
V for Vendetta
or most dystopian fiction really
don't quote me on this
Yep, dystopian fiction (including all -punk genres) tend to go against that trend.
Luckily for my statement, there's nothing traditional about these genres!
I mean
isn't that because the status quo of a dystopia is noticeably... worse, then most other settings
Isn't that the whole point of a dystopia
Quite.
Do we have any crown NPs?
it took till what fgo to get a ring NP right?
If you mean a NP that uses royal accessories as the actual item, then maybe?
Since NPs are symbols of what embodied that person's legend, you'd just have to think of a Heroic Spirit whose royal cape, or crown, or scepter was something they were best known for and they probably have it.
But then again, there are lots of NPs we see with the current lot of Heroic Spirits that are never used, can't be used, or have some restrictions.
give me an HRE servant with the Reichskrone as an NP, thanks
Otto the Great would be a good candidate, or maybe Charles V.
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