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Thread: The Type-Moon Miscellaneous Thoughts Thread

  1. #35241
    死徒(上級)Greater Dead Apostle
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    I am not sure if it's the same condition for the other alien system in regards to intelligence. Because types learned about earth's "intelligence" and came on earth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    So everything might just be different for them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh it wasn't intelligence but rather knowledge. But I guess it should mean the same thing and that it was some of the ultimate one not all of them. But conditions for ultimate ones might differ from planet to planet as their concepts are different.
    Just re checked notes.

  2. #35242
    Quote Originally Posted by Notes
    The only ones who were able to hear the cry of the planet, were also planets. I, no, we were the highest ranking species of those planets who received the will of this planet. For example, The Aristoteles that was called the Heaven's Corpse... what I used to be, was the most superior individual on Venus."

    "Wha...t?'

    Without knowing, I lost my breath. Our enemy were species that ruled over the alien branches of another planet, where our common sense doesn't apply. The strongest life form on a planet, was in other words, the planet itself. The human species who survived on this planet, to put it simple, were fighting 8 planets.
    Are we human, or are we planet?

  3. #35243
    It's just like what they say about microcosm and macrocosm man, or something.

  4. #35244
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    From a meta perspective there is a clear emphasis on humanity vs other beings that could or did hold the seat at least.

    Though I personally wonder with these sort of things if it usually results in a point where the power is concentrated in a single or group of beings after a point

  5. #35245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leftovers View Post
    Are we human, or are we planet?
    Precisely earth failed to make an ultimate one. So rest assured we are definitely human. Humans are independent of nature. So I guess one of the reasons why Ultimate one making failed

  6. #35246
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Byegod's Avatar
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    What defines something as independent from nature though? a free will? many fae and divine spirits have that as well

  7. #35247
    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    Iunno if they unravel things, as it seems alien species at minimum make things that interact with mystery as well thing using magic energy and souls.

    Plus things being mystery derived from those systems/creations like altera, the alter ego's
    Mystery is not something you interact with and it is something that only exist within human comprehension. The concept of mystery doesn't exist if humanity didn't and aliens having mystery is not something due to their inherent properties but due to how they interacted with humans.

  8. #35248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyug View Post
    Mystery is not something you interact with and it is something that only exist within human comprehension. The concept of mystery doesn't exist if humanity didn't and aliens having mystery is not something due to their inherent properties but due to how they interacted with humans.
    Thats not how it works im pretty certain

  9. #35249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    What defines something as independent from nature though? a free will? many fae and divine spirits have that as well
    I think it's the drive to unravel things...or doing things to unravel it.. curiosity that seeks to know about the earth itself.
    Planet probably changed the laws of the planet to make it comprehensible to humans which would otherwise be remain incomprehensible to the common sense of humanity

  10. #35250
    Quote Originally Posted by Byegod View Post
    Thats not how it works im pretty certain
    Mystery is what's mysterious to humans.

  11. #35251
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    Mystery is just a name of elements that are unknown to humanity. It works without humanity. Humanity is more or less what brought things that aren't mystery

  12. #35252
    Quote Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
    Mystery is just a name of elements that are unknown to humanity. It works without humanity. Humanity is more or less what brought things that aren't mystery
    It doesn't "work" without humanity specifically because it is only relevant to a world where the common sense of man rules. Aliens don't need to do anything to get mystery even just mundane objects like the the Ryougi katana gain mystery with age.

  13. #35253
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    Not sure about that. Stronger mystery over powers weaker mystery is a rule not limited to humans. It applies universally.
    Common sense of humans are what trying to actively unravel the world. "Mystery" doesn't exist for us. It is just a name given by humans. There's a reason why mystery is fading. It's in opposition to us humans

  14. #35254
    Quote Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
    Not sure about that. Stronger mystery over powers weaker mystery is a rule not limited to humans.
    But without humanity there would be nothing to weaken mystery so all mystery would be equally mysterious and that's why it's an irrelevant concept outside of the common sense of man.
    Last edited by Hyug; June 25th, 2022 at 06:54 AM.

  15. #35255
    • The real interest for me lies in the extent of the exceptionalism regarding humans, 霊長 or otherwise. It seems logical to argue that a 霊長 is marked by the ability to exert influence upon nature as an independent entity that isn't subservient to Gaia's order, rather than an abstraction of pure powerlevels like the TYPEs of old, and yet only humans have, to my knowledge, been spoken of as this singular existence that stands outside of nature, to the extent that the planet itself reacts against it. This primacy as a species - the ability to force our will onto nature, enact change and protect the interests of our species as a whole, is embodied by the Counter Force of Alaya, so emblematic a manifestation of the will of humans as 霊長 that half the uses of the term refer to it. Did the other 霊長 beyond humans have a Counter Force as well? Did they stand in conflict with Gaia as humans do? And if they didn't, what defines a 霊長, and is the existential sum of humanity greater than such a title?
    Spoiler:
    Thanks for compiling all the quotes. I did post something a few pages back talking about humanities sin and it seemingly being unique to them. It's probably connected back to the idea in KnK about the two forms of the CF and humanities representing a nature that will just devour the planet itself to ensure it's own survival so maybe humans are especially cancerous and in conflict with the planet? I wonder if other species would have their own equivalent to Alaya as well but maybe that's the crux of the issue and they simply wouldn't? Could their collective unconscious be what makes humans an outlier? So you get worlds where Alaya has stabilized things and worlds where Gaia has manifested. Tying back to CM as the main point of divergence with Tsuki worlds dealing with inhumans and human interaction and the planets best representative of their own CF in the TA being central. Church seems adamant about ensuring the destruction of any potential competitors to humanity with an especially insane outlook on vampires. DA getting powerful and denying human order, stemming from the species the planet created to check humans. Hmm. Doesn't Strange Fake even say DA are a part of the natural world or something similar?

  16. #35256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyug View Post
    But without humanity there would be nothing to weaken mystery so all mystery would be equally mysterious and that's why it's an irrelevant concept outside of the common sense of man.
    Strong mystery and weak mystery are inherent thing. As such it applies to LB minotaur where humanity isn't dominant nor its weaker or stronger.

  17. #35257
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    Quote Originally Posted by All fictions View Post
    My opinion exactly. Atlas is in Egypt and uses a lot of ancient Egyptian aesthetics (obelisks, hieroglyphic writing), but has named some of its creations after Hermes and his Trismegistus derivative, has members with Greek names, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nanaya View Post
    Spoiler:
    Thanks for compiling all the quotes. I did post something a few pages back talking about humanities sin and it seemingly being unique to them. It's probably connected back to the idea in KnK about the two forms of the CF and humanities representing a nature that will just devour the planet itself to ensure it's own survival so maybe humans are especially cancerous and in conflict with the planet? I wonder if other species would have their own equivalent to Alaya as well but maybe that's the crux of the issue and they simply wouldn't? Could their collective unconscious be what makes humans an outlier? So you get worlds where Alaya has stabilized things and worlds where Gaia has manifested. Tying back to CM as the main point of divergence with Tsuki worlds dealing with inhumans and human interaction and the planets best representative of their own CF in the TA being central. Church seems adamant about ensuring the destruction of any potential competitors to humanity with an especially insane outlook on vampires. DA getting powerful and denying human order, stemming from the species the planet created to check humans. Hmm. Doesn't Strange Fake even say DA are a part of the natural world or something similar?
    Perhaps Gaia comprises all the species outside humanity for its will to live. As such it uses elementals and other beings for its survival. Just like alaya uses servants

  18. #35258
    Quote Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
    Strong mystery and weak mystery are inherent thing. As such it applies to LB minotaur where humanity isn't dominant nor its weaker or stronger.
    The lbs are still worlds where the common sense of man takes hold to some extent even if they are not necessary dominant.
    Again, the definition of mystery implies that it is dependent on human perception.
    Last edited by Hyug; June 25th, 2022 at 09:16 AM.

  19. #35259
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    What they call mystery are elements unknown to humans.
    Stronger mystery means they have elements stronger than that.
    Such as fairies which are Independent of humans do have mystery.
    Such as human body we know almost everything we need to know about that. As such it doesn't have mystery.
    That common sense of humanity to an extent would somehow defeat one from PHH and supposedly being stronger than that? It's quite a stretch.
    Honestly also somewhat contradicts lore that beings that are independent of humanity would be restricted by concepts of humanity if it is

  20. #35260
    Quote Originally Posted by Takashi View Post
    What they call mystery are elements unknown to humans.
    Stronger mystery means they have elements stronger than that.
    Such as fairies which are Independent of humans do have mystery.
    Such as human body we know almost everything we need to know about that. As such it doesn't have mystery.
    That common sense of humanity to an extent would somehow defeat one from PHH and supposedly being stronger than that? It's quite a stretch.
    Honestly also somewhat contradicts lore that beings that are independent of humanity would be restricted by concepts of humanity if it is
    For me stronger mystery means something more mysterious or removed from human common sense and that's why older objects can accumulate mystery with age and become stronger.
    Beings that are removed from humanity can still be restricted by human concepts to some extent when they are in the world of man or interact with humans.

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