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Thread: Target: Emiya Shirou and Servant Berserker: White Knight

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle View Post
    Sorry Shikyo21, but I'm going to rant at you real hard right now.



    Why, why do people keep thinking that counter guardians can be used as characters!? IT DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY!


    Counterguardians are formless, invisible powers that act without being observed. Anything that is even close to its active radius end up DEAD!! You cannot use a counter guardian as a valid character. Emiya Shirou did not become a counter guardian until after his death.The only reason Archer was a character in F/SN was because he was simply a construct based on EMIYA's information, like any servant made by the grail.


    summary: COUNTERFORCE = CTRL + A ---DELETE. End of story, nothing else to see here people.


    My personal opinion is that you had a great idea for a plot, but you are throwing most of it away. I thing people would be far more interested to see how Shirou got involved with IS to start with, and how the boy who wants to become an hero would fit in a place like IS academy.
    Well the reason why the plot never revolves Shirou and his antics at IS academy is because that was never my intention in the first place. Both Target: Emiya Shirou and Berserker: White Knight are meant to be one-shots rather than multi-chapter. Besides, the whole point of both stories is to portray the consequences of his actions in IS world.

    Oh, and yes I view EMIYA as a literal natural disaster rather than a character (Thus I can use a kill-em-all plot). I mentioned to nununu that Shirou has already passed away without anyone knowing that he died. Thus, it explains why Chifuyu is breaking down and may look desperate to capture him as she believes that he's causing chaos everywhere (She has no clue whatsoever about CG or anything about nasuverse elements).

    What I can say is that what EMIYA did will trigger another event; thus self-fulfilling his role as a plot device rather than a character.

    Thanks for the advice and criticisms.

  2. #42
    祖 Ancestor nitewind's Avatar
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    That still doesn't work because when CG are deployed they kill EVERYTHING and there's also the fact that CG's aren't visible to normals.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
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  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by nitewind View Post
    That still doesn't work because when CG are deployed they kill EVERYTHING and there's also the fact that CG's aren't visible to normals.
    I assure you no one survives the slaughter (this also applies to the people close to the area)

    CG's aren't visible to normals, are you implying that EMIYA is like an invisible man?

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikyo21 View Post
    are you implying that EMIYA is like an invisible man?
    Bandages. The answer to many questions.
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  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Alulim View Post
    Bandages. The answer to many questions.
    means that EMIYA is pretty much invisible when he's cleaning up the world, thus blood splattered on his body indicates that he's there.

    Seriously? even servants are made out of something and Diarmuid can deflect bullets. Now I'm seeing ISes torn apart like what you expect from an old movie of an invisible monster rampaging around.

    In an case, I don't think I want to stop writing the fic.

  6. #46
    Glorious Grammar Master Race Frantic Author's Avatar
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    I came here, read the first bit and thought one thing -

    "Gee I can't wait to see how Shirou gets to this point from the start - it is certainly pretty interesting.
    "

    Instead I'm getting Massmurderer!Shirou with minimalist writing. Show me that he's killing people. Metaphors, similes, imagery - these are your friends.
    Also, combining FSN with IS and then throwing not shenanigans at the IS Academy at me made me kind of sad. I wanted to see Shirou and Shinonono(nononononono) Houki, and Cecilia Alcott! I wanted Laura and Charlotte, and Chifuye being a cynical bitch!

    Your minimalist style really retracts from your story. I don't get a feel for the characters in two sentences, I don't see how they act, how they think, or how they feel as well as I should in a oneshot (oneshots are usually really emotional and shit right)

    Also: A good example is that a Counter Guardian is like a hurricane - it destroys everything in its path, and doesn't ever stop. It kills them all and lets God sort them out. A Counter Guardian is invisible to mortal eyes - not 'normal' means, but mortal means. He doesn't need to be seen, because he's a force of fucking nature.

    Nitpick time.

    How do you not notice someone died? Shirou had a fucking harem if he replaces Ichika, and he's hounded by like the entire school! How does Chifuye know its Shirou murderizing everyone if he's invisible - covered in blood stains does not show a face!
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  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Frantic Author View Post
    I came here, read the first bit and thought one thing -

    "Gee I can't wait to see how Shirou gets to this point from the start - it is certainly pretty interesting.
    "

    Instead I'm getting Massmurderer!Shirou with minimalist writing. Show me that he's killing people. Metaphors, similes, imagery - these are your friends.
    Also, combining FSN with IS and then throwing not shenanigans at the IS Academy at me made me kind of sad. I wanted to see Shirou and Shinonono(nononononono) Houki, and Cecilia Alcott! I wanted Laura and Charlotte, and Chifuye being a cynical bitch!

    Your minimalist style really retracts from your story. I don't get a feel for the characters in two sentences, I don't see how they act, how they think, or how they feel as well as I should in a oneshot (oneshots are usually really emotional and shit right)

    Also: A good example is that a Counter Guardian is like a hurricane - it destroys everything in its path, and doesn't ever stop. It kills them all and lets God sort them out. A Counter Guardian is invisible to mortal eyes - not 'normal' means, but mortal means. He doesn't need to be seen, because he's a force of fucking nature.

    Nitpick time.

    How do you not notice someone died? Shirou had a fucking harem if he replaces Ichika, and he's hounded by like the entire school! How does Chifuye know its Shirou murderizing everyone if he's invisible - covered in blood stains does not show a face!
    (SIGH) When I wrote this I was under the impression that EMIYA can be seen; A Shirou like figure going around killing members of Phantom Task then military personnel that went after him.

  8. #48
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fraggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikyo21 View Post
    (SIGH) When I wrote this I was under the impression that EMIYA can be seen; A Shirou like figure going around killing members of Phantom Task then military personnel that went after him.

    It is a common mistake people new to Nasulore tend to make. People keep thinking that Archer is a representation of a counter guardian, but thats not true. The servant Archer we see in the 5th Heavens feel is a template filled with EMIYA'S memories and abilities, but is nothing more then that. A Servant is not a Heroic spirit, only one who is based on information the Throne of Heroes supplies.


    While Archer is trolling around Fuyuki the real EMIYA might be doing his regular job at the same time, because they are 2 different existences.


    Illya is best servant

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle View Post
    It is a common mistake people new to Nasulore tend to make. People keep thinking that Archer is a representation of a counter guardian, but thats not true. The servant Archer we see in the 5th Heavens feel is a template filled with EMIYA'S memories and abilities, but is nothing more then that. A Servant is not a Heroic spirit, only one who is based on information the Throne of Heroes supplies.


    While Archer is trolling around Fuyuki the real EMIYA might be doing his regular job at the same time, because they are 2 different existences.
    then who is cleaning the world? I mean can they be seen?

  10. #50
    Don't worry, the liquid is resplendent Incarnite Azurnum's Avatar
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    If it gets the job done easier, yes, they can be seen. If its more effective not to be seen then they won't be.

    One way or another.

  11. #51
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fraggle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shikyo21 View Post
    then who is cleaning the world? I mean can they be seen?
    Quote Originally Posted by Incarnite Azurnum View Post
    If it gets the job done easier, yes, they can be seen. If its more effective not to be seen then they won't be.

    One way or another.


    The counter force acts so that there are no witnesses, which often means killing everyone who could spread the news, or killing the cause before the event even happens. The point is : the counterforce is similar to a black hole in that it cannot be observed. You can only find traces of it's existence on the faint footprint it leaves behind on the world, and even that is hard to trace. Counter Guardians do not have a physical form in the world.


    Illya is best servant

  12. #52
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    I don't think that's entirely true. The counterforce kills everyone in sight, or who is in any way involved. I don't think it kills everyone who might happen to have seen what occured.

  13. #53
    祖 Ancestor nitewind's Avatar
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    Though admittedly anyone who might be in a position to see is probably involved in some way.
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    I am now a beta, so if you need help with a story feel free to ask.

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    "Pssh, with proper writing almost anything can be logical. If it can work believably, then there's no reason why it shouldn't.
    Please note the keywords: "proper" and "almost". Bad storytelling mixed with nonsensical couplings are the drunk-driving of literature."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
    Nothing helps you mature more than a little murder, especially in the Nasuverse.
    We are Beast's Lair!
    Derailer among derailers!
    Look upon the continuity of thy threads ye mighty, and DESPAIR!

  14. #54
    That's the whole point, the entire battle was completely a waste of IS and good soldiers, it's not like they knew that they were going against the world's cleaner or anything. From their point of view, Shirou is killing a lot of people that's all.

    Speaking of the counter guardians, I already knew that the original one is somewhere else while the one that does the slaughter well I don't know what to describe what he is. As far as I'm concerned, the cleaner is like a machine, obeying Alaya's orders.

    One more thing, It's true that Alaya will usually intervene but that's only cases where humanity is in danger. Tabane's creations on the other hand, is widely accepted by the world as part of its norm (Besides if there's any protest, its not like they can do anything against it having inferior fire-power against IS technology plus there are benefits to IS technology that they can't just ignore thus makes sense that they just have to twist things around).

    This Shirou has an IS latched inside his body (With cameras installed in it from yours truly Tabane) like a parasite unlike Ichika in canon. Does that count that the cleaner has to be completely solid to take down IS technology Nitewind?

  15. #55
    祖 Ancestor nitewind's Avatar
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    That's not how it works. The counterforce either "empowers living humans" to deal with a crisis or sends in the counterguardians. EMIYA is a counterguardian, regular Shirou is not, and if he's already dead then he doesn't qualify for the "empowers living humans" stick.
    Spoiler:
    As a general rule I hold no opinions that I have not been paid to hold.
    I am now a beta, so if you need help with a story feel free to ask.

    Words of wisdom from ItsaRandomUsername:
    "Pssh, with proper writing almost anything can be logical. If it can work believably, then there's no reason why it shouldn't.
    Please note the keywords: "proper" and "almost". Bad storytelling mixed with nonsensical couplings are the drunk-driving of literature."

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
    Nothing helps you mature more than a little murder, especially in the Nasuverse.
    We are Beast's Lair!
    Derailer among derailers!
    Look upon the continuity of thy threads ye mighty, and DESPAIR!

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by nitewind View Post
    That's not how it works. The counterforce either "empowers living humans" to deal with a crisis or sends in the counterguardians. EMIYA is a counterguardian, regular Shirou is not, and if he's already dead then he doesn't qualify for the "empowers living humans" stick.
    The IS became a part of him even after he died and becoming part of the counterforce. The cameras obviously don't function anymore, that is Tabane's mistake.

  17. #57
    Don't worry, the liquid is resplendent Incarnite Azurnum's Avatar
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    Uhh, it would have to literally latch onto his soul (or be profoundly ingrained into his body). Even then, the cameras receiver would suffer fatal errors due to being in multiple places at the same time (maybe) and from being at different times.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Incarnite Azurnum View Post
    Uhh, it would have to literally latch onto his soul (or be profoundly ingrained into his body). Even then, the cameras receiver would suffer fatal errors due to being in multiple places at the same time (maybe) and from being at different times.
    Thus the IS latched in him serves as an armor for him to fight, the cameras Tabane installed no longer function after he died.

    Oh, and lets just say that his IS is useful for something; something that might come to useful to Shirou in a long run.

    As readers, we know everything about the nasuverse but the characters in the fic has no clue whatsoever about nasuverse elements (Except Tabane when she experimented on him but even that she only scratch the surface and why not even Kiritsugu found out about well you know how Tabane is anyone meeting her in person can't take her seriously with her behaviour)

  19. #59
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors fraggle's Avatar
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    I'm sorry Shikyo, but your attempt on making this work goes beyond my Willing suspension of disbelieve, and I think I'm not the only one who feels that way. The existence of an EMIYA with an IS is impossible, and the the fact that you skip a huge amount of development of the plot just bugs me. I don't know what you were planning here but things just don't add up. Perhaps you should take he entire thing back to the drawing board?



    Your attempt did inspire me to write the ' Infinite blades' snippet in the crossover tread though.


    Illya is best servant

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by fraggle View Post
    I'm sorry Shikyo, but your attempt on making this work goes beyond my Willing suspension of disbelieve, and I think I'm not the only one who feels that way. The existence of an EMIYA with an IS is impossible, and the the fact that you skip a huge amount of development of the plot just bugs me. I don't know what you were planning here but things just don't add up. Perhaps you should take he entire thing back to the drawing board?



    Your attempt did inspire me to write the ' Infinite blades' snippet in the crossover tread though.
    Makes sense only if you put into account that Shirou is living in IS world. Even if I do fail in this one, I ended up trying to do something different for a change.

    Oh, and in Infinite Stratos it turns out that IS cores have a soul or some sort (Byakushiki)

    Plot huh? The fic is a one shot so I kinda do miss out on his school days in IS academy. Another reason is because the main focus is revolving around the consequences of Shirou's actions (This also includes the cleaner as well) The title is the clue where the fic is going.

    Infinite Blades Fraggle? can I see it?

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