View Poll Results: Which Saber would be best for Shirou?

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  • Arturia (Original waifu--ACCEPT NO SUBSTITUTES)

    14 28.00%
  • Nero (She's basically the love-child of Iskandar and Saber)

    13 26.00%
  • Mordred (Because daddy issues)

    18 36.00%
  • Attila (Just to be completly hipster)

    3 6.00%
  • Siegfried (Screw the women, this boy needs a MANLY MAN)

    16 32.00%
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Thread: The Son of the Great

  1. #41
    Counter GARdian ArcherEMIYA's Avatar
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    And also wasn't Shirou's inability to use other magecraft a product of him never using his real magic circuits and ruining his body turning his nerves into a circuit? He might not be able to do much of Waver's magic but at least he shouldn't be a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong, sword spam is awesome, I just think someone like Waver would round out his repertoire a little.
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  2. #42
    Shirou: If you can't beat them, join them *eye rolls* burningclaw2's Avatar
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    I shall agree with everyone else, also will Raida be helping with the 5th Grail War.
    Words to live by: Fate is a B****, Destiny is a whore, while Karma is just doing her job.

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    Tohsaka Rin You are Rin. Cool and collected, you think logically about most situations. You strive for self-perfection, and rely on others only for your benefit. You may be cold toward most people, but you can be friendly when you try. Indeed, it could be said you enjoy helping others that you care for. Whatever the case, you tend to think logically and don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

  3. #43
    ジュカイン Lycodrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherEMIYA View Post
    And also wasn't Shirou's inability to use other magecraft a product of him never using his real magic circuits and ruining his body turning his nerves into a circuit? He might not be able to do much of Waver's magic but at least he shouldn't be a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong, sword spam is awesome, I just think someone like Waver would round out his repertoire a little.
    Asked this already, and still wondering...
    And not sure "sword-projection" right off the bat makes sense, either...
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by ArcherEMIYA View Post
    And also wasn't Shirou's inability to use other magecraft a product of him never using his real magic circuits and ruining his body turning his nerves into a circuit? He might not be able to do much of Waver's magic but at least he shouldn't be a one trick pony. Don't get me wrong, sword spam is awesome, I just think someone like Waver would round out his repertoire a little.
    Shirou's incompatibility with most of modern magecraft isn't due to his incorrect use of magic circuits for so long. Rather, its the fact that having been exposed to Avalon for so long literally restructured his soul. Whatever affinity or origin he might of had prior to the incident following the 4th HGW was overwritten when he was implanted with Avalon. The concept of "sword" became so deeply ingrained within Shirou's mind, body, and soul that he became a living incarnation of the concept.

    This is just my theory, but nasuverse magecraft is based around the idea of self-hypnosis. By setting yourself into the correct state of mind, you can direct prana stored within your soul into the outside world. The resulting changes in reality is what is referred to as magecraft. The reason most magi specialize in specific fields, or certain alignments are required for certain rituals, is that in order to reach the state of mind needed to achieve certain results, one's soul needs to be "attuned" to a specific concept/element. However, in Shirou's case, he is so attuned to the concept of "sword" that he always returns to that concept alone.

  5. #45
    Why am I holding a scale? The Curious Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaginary View Post
    Shirou's incompatibility with most of modern magecraft isn't due to his incorrect use of magic circuits for so long.
    Though it can't have helped matters...

  6. #46
    Fail Event Horizon Agailius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by burningclaw2 View Post
    I shall agree with everyone else, also will Raida be helping with the 5th Grail War.
    Don't worry--he'll have his fair share of Big Damn Hero moments, but Broskander is the type to let history run it's own course. He won't win the Grail War for himself, nor will he do it for Shirou. He WILL, however, be damned awesome.
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  7. #47
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    I'm interested to see what you've got in store here, especially for Sakura. I presume her situation is much the same as it is in canon, currently....

  8. #48
    Fail Event Horizon Agailius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike1984 View Post
    I'm interested to see what you've got in store here, especially for Sakura. I presume her situation is much the same as it is in canon, currently....
    Yep. And Iskander is going to ship-tease the s#!% outta the two them.
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  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agailius View Post
    Yep. And Iskander is going to ship-tease the s#!% outta the two them.
    Well, yes, but what happens when the Grail War comes around?

    Plus, of course, there's still Zouken to deal with....

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by The Curious Fan View Post
    Though it can't have helped matters...
    As far as I can tell, it didn't really do much either way. If anything, its what allowed Shirou to take advantage of the specific areas of magecraft he can use so quickly after he was corrected. He turned his spine into a magic circuit day after day. I would suspect that doing that is what increased his structural analysis abilities and prana control to superhuman levels.

  11. #51
    Why am I holding a scale? The Curious Fan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaginary View Post
    As far as I can tell, it didn't really do much either way. If anything, its what allowed Shirou to take advantage of the specific areas of magecraft he can use so quickly after he was corrected. He turned his spine into a magic circuit day after day. I would suspect that doing that is what increased his structural analysis abilities and prana control to superhuman levels.
    It also left him with terrible circuits IIRC....

    And who says he can't pick up those skills under Waver?

  12. #52
    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Imaginary View Post
    This certainly is interesting. Although I still have a few questions as to how Rider is able to exist at all right now. As I understand it, the Corrupt Grail was capable of providing Servants with a new body, but they still required a constant prana intake. Since I doubt Waver has stockpiled a bunch of orphans under the *cough* "Emiya" residence, then I'm assuming that either Waver or Kiritsugu is nearby to act as a battery. At least I hope they are. Having "Uncle Waver" would certainly be an interesting addition to the cast.

    Also, what is Shirou's position of magecraft. Rider being a figure straight out of the history books means that Shirou must have recognized that having Alexander the Great as your adopted father is somewhat...strange. I would assume that Shirou would have been informed of the true nature of his "father" as well as the existence of magecraft, correct?
    The problem with the Grail is that corrupts Servants. If Iskander got a body thanks to the grail, he should be blackened. On the other hand, if it's just Waver suplying him... well, Rin can't do that without help, and she has better potential than him. Gil is an exception because he, without the grail, had already a ridiculously high Independant Action (A rank, IIRC), and the Grail gave him a body, upgrading IA to A+. He is, canonically, the only Servant known to be able to resist the corruption of the Grail.

    Quote Originally Posted by Agailius View Post
    Thank you for pointing it out. Sword-projection unlocked!
    The problem Shirou had with his magic was the whole circuit thing. When it comes to projection, structural analysis and reinforcement, he is a savant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Imaginary View Post
    This doesn't really make any sense to me. In canon, Shirou's personality can largely be attributed to his survivor's guilt meshing well with Kiritsugu's ideals. Rider's philosophy of "living large" doesn't really sound like something that would easily be adopted by someone who had his entire world torn down and burned to ashes before their very eyes. I honestly have difficulty seeing Shirou dedicating himself to any other ideal so vehemently.
    No, it makes sense. The real ideal of Shirou is "to have everyone around him smiling". It was with Kiritsugu's death that he changed it to "To save everyone". This time, he has no trauma about his step father dying, but he would still be happy about being saved, so the whole "For great happiness" makes sense.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
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    I dont even know what Lunatique is. I assume it's terrible for the sake of argument.

  13. #53
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors nitewind's Avatar
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    Keep in mind that Gil doesn't need prana in order to exist but he does need it in order to fight, that's what the orphan battery in the basement was for. Assuming Iskander got a body the same as Gil he should be under the same restrictions. And ergast did you read the first chapter? It talks about the reason Alex isn't blackened there.
    Spoiler:
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  14. #54
    Shirou: If you can't beat them, join them *eye rolls* burningclaw2's Avatar
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    Alexander was already crazy in a bro kind of way.
    Words to live by: Fate is a B****, Destiny is a whore, while Karma is just doing her job.

    Violence solves all problems. If its not working then you are not using enough.
    Even though I am male after taking a 'Which Fate/stay night Character are you?' quiz I am...

    Tohsaka Rin You are Rin. Cool and collected, you think logically about most situations. You strive for self-perfection, and rely on others only for your benefit. You may be cold toward most people, but you can be friendly when you try. Indeed, it could be said you enjoy helping others that you care for. Whatever the case, you tend to think logically and don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

  15. #55
    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    @nitewind I missed it.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sage of Eyes View Post
    Denizens of another dimension, meet Rin Tohsaka, Tsundere of Mass Destruction
    Quote Originally Posted by Christemo View Post
    I dont even know what Lunatique is. I assume it's terrible for the sake of argument.

  16. #56
    Fail Event Horizon Agailius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ergast View Post
    @nitewind I missed it.
    Basically, Broskander's ambition is too over the top for Angry Mayo to overtake, sorta like how Gil's ego is too over the top.

    Think of it this way: Angry Mayo is All the Evils of the World, right? And Rider's trying to take OVER the world, savvy? Then, wouldn't it do his ambition justice if the kicks Angry Mayo's ass in the department of his supremacy over the world?

    Yeah, Broskander is THAT. F***ING. AWESOME.
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  17. #57
    Shirou: If you can't beat them, join them *eye rolls* burningclaw2's Avatar
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    Like I said he is so bleeding crazy in a bro kind of way that Angra did not have a chance.
    Words to live by: Fate is a B****, Destiny is a whore, while Karma is just doing her job.

    Violence solves all problems. If its not working then you are not using enough.
    Even though I am male after taking a 'Which Fate/stay night Character are you?' quiz I am...

    Tohsaka Rin You are Rin. Cool and collected, you think logically about most situations. You strive for self-perfection, and rely on others only for your benefit. You may be cold toward most people, but you can be friendly when you try. Indeed, it could be said you enjoy helping others that you care for. Whatever the case, you tend to think logically and don't let emotions cloud your judgement.

  18. #58
    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    Yeah, I have read it. I just missed it the first time ^^U

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sage of Eyes View Post
    Denizens of another dimension, meet Rin Tohsaka, Tsundere of Mass Destruction
    Quote Originally Posted by Christemo View Post
    I dont even know what Lunatique is. I assume it's terrible for the sake of argument.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by The Curious Fan View Post
    It also left him with terrible circuits IIRC....

    And who says he can't pick up those skills under Waver?
    No, it left him with underdeveloped circuites. There is nothing wrong with Shirou's natural circuites save the fact that he had never used them up until he found out he had been doing magecraft wrong the entire time.

    As for Shirou picking up skills under Waver, I have no doubt that he could. However, they will have to be very basic skills that require no specific affinity or alignments. I would think something like hypnosis would probably be towards the limits of what he would be capable of, but not much beyond that if its not related to "swords."



    Quote Originally Posted by Ergast View Post
    No, it makes sense. The real ideal of Shirou is "to have everyone around him smiling". It was with Kiritsugu's death that he changed it to "To save everyone". This time, he has no trauma about his step father dying, but he would still be happy about being saved, so the whole "For great happiness" makes sense.
    Shirou after the Fuyuki fire was left a completely blank slate. The fire wiped away his memory, his personality, and even his perception of the world around him. After the event, one of his first memories is seeing the joy Kiritsugu feels when he is able to save him. Why do you think he is constantly referred to as a Faker? Its not just because he produced "fake" weaponry, everything about him is borrowed from how he perceived his father to be. However, it wasn't till after Kiritsugu's death (and the events of the 5th HGW) that he realized the full extent of those borrowed ideals. The whole idea behind there being separate routes in Fate/Stay Night is looking at how Shirou could possibly choose to adress this crisis of ideals.

    Its one thing for Shirou to adopt Rider's habits and ideas. Its another thing entirely to replace his "saving people" thing and replace it with "for great happiness" and keep them on the same level.

  20. #60
    Venus Swordman Ergast's Avatar
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    Shirou is not as blank slate as he would like to be. That's why its wrong for him to try and sacrifice himself, as Rin said in UBW. Sure, he absorved things from Kiritsugu, and he forgot everything before the fire, but he is still him.

    Spoiler:
    Quote Originally Posted by shiningphoenix View Post
    Rin: "I wanted Saber..."
    Archer: "What? But Archers are all insanely OP, it's like a rule or something, why would you think Sabers were better?"
    Rin: "Sabers are more molestable..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigilantia View Post
    AC!Rin. Fixing problems one moan at a time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sage of Eyes View Post
    Denizens of another dimension, meet Rin Tohsaka, Tsundere of Mass Destruction
    Quote Originally Posted by Christemo View Post
    I dont even know what Lunatique is. I assume it's terrible for the sake of argument.

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