Here's a theory to chew on: The Makiri were involved in the first grail war, and contributed their best method for controlling a familiar. It failed, so they then proceeded to research and create the Command Seals for the second war.
Here's a theory to chew on: The Makiri were involved in the first grail war, and contributed their best method for controlling a familiar. It failed, so they then proceeded to research and create the Command Seals for the second war.
Originally Posted by Lois McMaster Bujold
The Einzbern provided the administration (the Lesser and Greater Grails, using a fraction of the Third to call the Heroic Spirits), the Tohsaka provided the land, which housed the leyline that provides the required amount of distortion for the ritual, and the Makiri provided the summoning (binding Heroic Spirits to a magus and placing those souls in Class shells), which seems like it was upgraded to the command spells due to 'issues'.
"Fate/stay night: not really an eroge, and not really a cooking sim, but actually an RPG wherein everyone’s primary stat is “self-loathing” and the goal is to level it up beyond all the other characters."
See? I WAS NOT WRONG.
*ahem*
So yeah, lolnasu-induced plotholes.
Yeah, I guess there's enough ambiguity in the CM3 entries for there to have been an imperfect/alternate version of the Command Spells hanging around for the First. They simply weren't the same as 'those in the present'. When they didn't work (and, it seems, all hell broke loose rendering the First a 'bloody failure'), Zōken and his family presumably set to work to 'complete' the system. Not, apparently, that it helped, but hey.
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You know...sense the 4th is considered a success...I wonder how bad the first must have been, in order to be labeled as a 'bloody failure'Yeah, I guess there's enough ambiguity in the CM3 entries for there to have been an imperfect/alternate version of the Command Spells hanging around for the First. They simply weren't the same as 'those in the present'. When they didn't work (and, it seems, all hell broke loose rendering the First a 'bloody failure'), Zōken and his family presumably set to work to 'complete' the system. Not, apparently, that it helped, but hey.
First and Second are '朱敗'/'bloody failures'. Apparently things really went to shit in them. *shrug*
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Some of the Masters survived the Fourth, and the Grail manifested. Its quite possible that neither occurred in the First and Second (depending on what 'Descent of the Grail' means).
"Those who say it can not be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
-- Chinese Proverb
And in the third someone decided it was a good idea to summon Angra Mainyu.
If you're going through hell, keep going. - Winston Churchill
There is nothing either good or bad but thinking makes it so. - William Shakespeare
I think that might have been the Einzberns, frustrated by two bloody failures in a row.
"Those who say it can not be done should not interrupt those who are doing it."
-- Chinese Proverb
When you think about it, the HF version of the fifth isn't that bad in comparison with the other four previous ones... well, maybe it's worse than the fourth. Just maybe.
Spoiler:
In their defense. They thought they would summon an unstoppable God.
They got some poor kid with all around E stats and a shitty as Feth NP...that horribly corrupted the Grail system as he was the first to die.
Poor Einzberns.
I think the only reason the 5th war was not worse than the 4th. Is the fact that it caught everyone with their pants down.
HF? definitely. Fate and UBW? still beaten by the clusterfuck ending of the fourth.
Being Einzbern is suffering. this is truth. Just look at poor Ilya ;_;
It's just the term for 'the place where the Holy Grail manifests at the end'. It's said for each of the first four entries, seemingly without qualifiers, so I wouldn't read a lot into it.
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For all we know, the First 'war' might have just been the logical clusterfuck conclusion you get when you summon multiple Heroic Spirits without restraining bolts and tell them the Last Man Standing gets access to a wish-granting machine...
We don't even know if the 'no Anti-heroes' clause was there before the Third... And given how Gil, Medea and Medusa keep themselves buffed up on prana...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------When Rin and tech touches one or the other will spontaneously combust into a conflaguration of flames and pain, that is the law of Rin.
In fact we do. Until the summoning of Avenger in the third war, and the corruption of the grail after Avenger's death, the Grail didn't summon (and couldn't summon unless cheating, and only the Einzbern can cheat like that) anti-heroes.
Spoiler:
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