Prisma Illya

[Mattias]

God, listening to it 25 years later and Usagi sounds like she's a chain smoker in her late 40's.

[warellis]

God, listening to it 25 years later and Usagi sounds like she's a chain smoker in her late 40's.

A lot of the dubs back then, and today still I suspect, weren't exactly using Grade A voice actors from what I remember.

And then you had companies like 4Kids who would turn rice balls into jelly donuts. And of course there was the infamous "Macekre" done on stuff like Macross [though IIRC that was more due to Harmony Gold forcing him to cram in more episodes than the original Macross had].

[AmADo VII]

God, listening to it 25 years later and Usagi sounds like she's a chain smoker in her late 40's.

did you know JP Usagi was voiced by Aoko.

[madarra]

Only once i heard her trying to use the Usagi voice again in Crystal

[Deathhappens]

The characters might not stay dead, but they sure as hell are dying inside though:

I don't care how bad it is in retrospect, I will never not stan the old Sailor Moon.

[SheriTansorma]

The more I think about it, the more I dislike this decision.

I've already said all I've had to say about the decision if it sticks. It's cynical, nihilistic, and fatalistic, yet another Fate story about the flaws of idealism. Yada yada, we've heard it all before. Kuro basically got refrigerated for Illya's development. If it doesn't stick, I mean, that's just a shitty way to treat your audience? Yeah, five or six years from now, this is all water under the bridge, anyone who's catching up sees Kuro dies and then she's back at it again at Krispy Kreme's in an hour or something, but for those that are keeping up as it releases, with Hiroyama's release pacing, its like, damn bro, there really any point to hurt us like that?

TBH, I got thinking about this again because of, surprisingly, animal videos I've been watching. Just a lot of videos of people saving animals, or pets being reunited with owners after years apart, and its like, wow. You know what? The world is filled with happy stories. These are real stories that didn't need a tragedy to be "realistic". Sometimes planes crash in rivers and everyone lives, sometimes pets get lost for years and eventually return, sometimes people are in comas and recover. Miracles do happen!

I've seen from others (Not of this forum. Yet.) not just defending/enjoying this decision (which is fine) but rebuking those who find it unnecessary and distasteful. The idea that bad thing is not just inevitable but necessary, that Illya *needs* this to grow as a person, is questionable at best. The point I was getting at mentioning the animal rescue is that it got me thinking about how the world is also filled with happy stories. Correlating realism and relatability in a story to some arbitrary quota of despair is rather, for a lack of a better word, edgy. If we really want to go with realism, Illya and especially Miyu should have complete mental breakdowns, shut down as a person for multiple weeks, and be left with a life long trauma that they never really get over. Not to get too personal, but as someone with multiple real-world experiences with certain subject materials that are often considered to be among Type-Moons more "mature" themes, recovery from traumatic events tends to be a relative term, though of course, I don't claim to speak for everyone with similar experiences. Not only do I doubt that such a direction is where Hiroyama plans to take Prillya, I highly doubt anyone would be receptive to that direction. So the idea that Illya being forced to suffer a traumatic loss inherently elevates the story because it's more realistic and relatable falls flat. Utilitarian fatalism isn't a mark of maturity, it's just bitter and unpleasant. I realize this is a somewhat contentious statement to make on a Type-Moon focused forum, given Type-Moon's usual material. I want to make clear, I consider Fate/Extra and KnK 5 not just my favorite Type-Moon works but some of my favorite pieces of media period, so I am not unreceptive to that sort of storytelling. However, the idea that stories where traumatic, depressing events happen are inherently a step above other stories because they're more realistic, relatable, and mature is, quite honestly, repugnant.

This is all to say, Prillya would have been fine if Kuro didn't die. This didn't *need* to happen. The idea that Prillya *needed* to go in this direction or it would have been a lesser story otherwise is just very bitter and, in my opinion, rather mean-spirited. A story where Illya fought and eventually achieves her perfect happy ending would be just as valid and just as real as any other. This very well may still happen, this is not a series where deaths are necessarily always permanent, but that's beside the point. The story does not need to be fatalistic. If Hiroyama wants it to be and that's the story people are into, more power to them, but it didn't *need* to be this way. Illya doesn't need to learn the "hard lessons of life".

To go off on a quick tangent, an excellent story that is about the deconstruction of and ultimately utter denouement and rejection of fatalism is Steins;Gate. I won't get into spoilers, but it's a very emotional, and downright depressing story that is ultimately one of the most hopeful and optimistic stories basically ever. It's a story about completely and totally refusing to accept that "It has to be this way". It's a story about refusing to learn the """hard lessons""" of life. Though given what I've heard from some, they wouldn't consider it very good because it's not """relatable and realistic""" due to that. I bring it up because I thought that Prillya would have gone in a similar manner. Illya's choice, what once was one of the most powerful moments. felt like it was going in the same direction. Illya is presented with the trolley problem, with the idea that to save one means being unable to save others, that sacrifice is necessary, and spit in its face. A story that was set up to be, or at least had its main character stand in stark opposition to the idea of fatalism, then turning around and forcing them to confront fatalism as the "truth" of the world is, understandably, pretty unpleasant for a lot of people. Illya Choice now, and honestly quite a bit of the series, now feels rather empty and disingenuous if this is truly what the story was building towards. Of course, as I said, 6 years from now we might be opening the new chapter to see Kuro has finally learned how to use UBW as she faces off against Darius' 5th form, but right here, right now, at this moment, that is what Prillya feels like and a lot of people, myself included, aren't into it.


tl;dr I still hoes, and I'm still mad. The idea that Prillya needed to go in this direction and moreover, that stories with death, loss, and trauma and inherently more mature, realistic and better than ones that aren't that way is some real psuedo-intellectual nonsense. Also I honestly just wanted to get this off my chest because I ain't got nowhere else to talk about this.

[Zork Knight]

Kuro needed to die because she's a serial sexual harasser

[bassgs435]

That's a reason to keep her alive. Clear best girl material didn't deserve this

[OverMaster]

Black Dudette Dies First.

[AmADo VII]

Kuro deserves EMIYA moment

[OverMaster]

I can't believe she died without putting her arm up Illya.

I mean, in Illya.

I mean, on Illya.

I mean--

[LegalLoliLover]

Kuro needed to die because she's a serial sexual harasser

AKA the reason that half of us are even reading this manga. Again, it's like killing off Rumpelstiltskin in Once Upon a Time. You only do that when you want to end the series.

[OverMaster]

Eh, arguably, the series kept on living relatively long before Kuro even debuted.

She's become the Vegeta-like coprotagonist figure even if both were absent from the first series, so the popularity would take a major hit, but logistics-wise, the plot could keep going without her.

[SheriTansorma]

Kuro deserves EMIYA moment

Yeah, 100% this. It honestly one of the reasons that its so frustrating because Kuro, and to be honest Miyu for that matter, still haven't hard their BIG moments. They've had a cool moments, yes, they'd had awesome moments, but they haven't had that One Character Defining Moment that all about them being the best versions of themselves, whereas Illya has had multiple at this point and its not even an exaggeration. 2wei Form, Saber Ascension, Gorgon Mode, Illya's Choice (As flaccid as that is now in retrospect), Ect etc. Neither Kuro nor Miyu has really had a chance to have, for a lack of a better word, a Legendary Moment. A moment where they do something that, if you were to reread or introduce someone to the series, it'd be The Moment your waiting for. The singular character moment that is basically a culmination and crescendo of everything that character is, was, and will ever be. If Kuro's death were at least similar to Archer's death in Deen/Stay Night, I think it'd at least be more palatable, even if I still think it's an unnecessarily fatalistic and dower direction for the series to take.

As it is, she really, genuinely just got refrigerated without really feeling like we got everything we could have out of her character.

[fumei]

You only do that when you want to end the series.

Well...

[Maltese]

they haven't had that One Character Defining Moment that all about them being the best versions of themselves... A moment where they do something that, if you were to reread or introduce someone to the series, it'd be The Moment your waiting for. The singular character moment that is basically a culmination and crescendo of everything that character is, was, and will ever be.

For Kuro, wouldn't that be the Miyu kiss?

[Deathhappens]

Nothing less than a threesome for Serial Molester Kuro.

[Zork Knight]

You only do that when you want to end the series.

Good​. Enough crawling towards the grave already.

[Takashi]

The more I think about it, the more I dislike this decision.

I've already said all I've had to say about the decision if it sticks. It's cynical, nihilistic, and fatalistic, yet another Fate story about the flaws of idealism. Yada yada, we've heard it all before. Kuro basically got refrigerated for Illya's development. If it doesn't stick, I mean, that's just a shitty way to treat your audience? Yeah, five or six years from now, this is all water under the bridge, anyone who's catching up sees Kuro dies and then she's back at it again at Krispy Kreme's in an hour or something, but for those that are keeping up as it releases, with Hiroyama's release pacing, its like, damn bro, there really any point to hurt us like that?

TBH, I got thinking about this again because of, surprisingly, animal videos I've been watching. Just a lot of videos of people saving animals, or pets being reunited with owners after years apart, and its like, wow. You know what? The world is filled with happy stories. These are real stories that didn't need a tragedy to be "realistic". Sometimes planes crash in rivers and everyone lives, sometimes pets get lost for years and eventually return, sometimes people are in comas and recover. Miracles do happen!

I've seen from others (Not of this forum. Yet.) not just defending/enjoying this decision (which is fine) but rebuking those who find it unnecessary and distasteful. The idea that bad thing is not just inevitable but necessary, that Illya *needs* this to grow as a person, is questionable at best. The point I was getting at mentioning the animal rescue is that it got me thinking about how the world is also filled with happy stories. Correlating realism and relatability in a story to some arbitrary quota of despair is rather, for a lack of a better word, edgy. If we really want to go with realism, Illya and especially Miyu should have complete mental breakdowns, shut down as a person for multiple weeks, and be left with a life long trauma that they never really get over. Not to get too personal, but as someone with multiple real-world experiences with certain subject materials that are often considered to be among Type-Moons more "mature" themes, recovery from traumatic events tends to be a relative term, though of course, I don't claim to speak for everyone with similar experiences. Not only do I doubt that such a direction is where Hiroyama plans to take Prillya, I highly doubt anyone would be receptive to that direction. So the idea that Illya being forced to suffer a traumatic loss inherently elevates the story because it's more realistic and relatable falls flat. Utilitarian fatalism isn't a mark of maturity, it's just bitter and unpleasant. I realize this is a somewhat contentious statement to make on a Type-Moon focused forum, given Type-Moon's usual material. I want to make clear, I consider Fate/Extra and KnK 5 not just my favorite Type-Moon works but some of my favorite pieces of media period, so I am not unreceptive to that sort of storytelling. However, the idea that stories where traumatic, depressing events happen are inherently a step above other stories because they're more realistic, relatable, and mature is, quite honestly, repugnant.

This is all to say, Prillya would have been fine if Kuro didn't die. This didn't *need* to happen. The idea that Prillya *needed* to go in this direction or it would have been a lesser story otherwise is just very bitter and, in my opinion, rather mean-spirited. A story where Illya fought and eventually achieves her perfect happy ending would be just as valid and just as real as any other. This very well may still happen, this is not a series where deaths are necessarily always permanent, but that's beside the point. The story does not need to be fatalistic. If Hiroyama wants it to be and that's the story people are into, more power to them, but it didn't *need* to be this way. Illya doesn't need to learn the "hard lessons of life".

To go off on a quick tangent, an excellent story that is about the deconstruction of and ultimately utter denouement and rejection of fatalism is Steins;Gate. I won't get into spoilers, but it's a very emotional, and downright depressing story that is ultimately one of the most hopeful and optimistic stories basically ever. It's a story about completely and totally refusing to accept that "It has to be this way". It's a story about refusing to learn the """hard lessons""" of life. Though given what I've heard from some, they wouldn't consider it very good because it's not """relatable and realistic""" due to that. I bring it up because I thought that Prillya would have gone in a similar manner. Illya's choice, what once was one of the most powerful moments. felt like it was going in the same direction. Illya is presented with the trolley problem, with the idea that to save one means being unable to save others, that sacrifice is necessary, and spit in its face. A story that was set up to be, or at least had its main character stand in stark opposition to the idea of fatalism, then turning around and forcing them to confront fatalism as the "truth" of the world is, understandably, pretty unpleasant for a lot of people. Illya Choice now, and honestly quite a bit of the series, now feels rather empty and disingenuous if this is truly what the story was building towards. Of course, as I said, 6 years from now we might be opening the new chapter to see Kuro has finally learned how to use UBW as she faces off against Darius' 5th form, but right here, right now, at this moment, that is what Prillya feels like and a lot of people, myself included, aren't into it.


tl;dr I still hoes, and I'm still mad. The idea that Prillya needed to go in this direction and moreover, that stories with death, loss, and trauma and inherently more mature, realistic and better than ones that aren't that way is some real psuedo-intellectual nonsense. Also I honestly just wanted to get this off my chest because I ain't got nowhere else to talk about this.

I don't think stories filled with death is more mature, but death of a character certainly gives a feeling that shits real and unexpected things may occur as story goes forward in the arc.

[RootoftheDream]

I'm gonna wait till the next few chapters come out before I make a judgment on Kuro's death. Generally I'm the type of person who tries to give the benefit of doubt at least until the conclusion. Either way it's a ballsy move.