Hiroyama isn't trying to be Urobuchi and this magical girl story doesn't have the same themes or goals as Heaven's Feel. Hiroyama might've borrowed from the HF aesthetic and tone sometimes, but there's a reason why all the obvious thematic parallels were contained to the Shirou backstory.
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I'm not even arguing that it wouldn't be cheap, but "hiroyama would be a less talented urobuchi" is absolute nonsense.
It doesnt have to be cheap, depends of the execution. The thing is, we had an important character diying in a few pages last time, and now, with barely no breathing, the world ends in other few pages
I'm still struggling to figure out what the hell the plan is. Like they were using Miyu to write a new legend or something? And they needed her to open Pandora's box and then Julian's personal plan was to 'kill' Pandora before Darius' plan could come to fruition, and Darius' plan would somehow save humanity by transforming them into something that could survive the new earth (Notes Notes Notes), but then all of a sudden it's these weird ass Giants with Darius as some sorta jacked fire jesus thing which will now be the new origin of human history or something?
Can anyone sum it up, cause that's the best I could do and its garbage.
Originally Posted by Break
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Hiroyama is 100% making shit up at this point, lmao. Like I'm sure he still has some sort of general vague master plan, but there is a not insignificant portion of the story that's being made up as it goes.
I actually agree, and knew from the start it was gonna be like this. My post was more arguing against the idea of if the story went the more dower route. Certain elements in the fandom are like... obsessive over thinking and/or wanting Prillya to become one of the most awful, bitter, miserable iterations of a story Type-Moon has told 5 times already. Their very much coming from the perspective that Prisma Illya is supposed a magical girl story for people who don't like magical girls, even if they won't say it.
Yeah, lol, its such a ramp up so quickly to the point of ridiculousness. If Hiroyama actually expected us to take this seriously, that's just straight up poor writing. Unceremoniously offing two-thirds of the main cast, back to back, with in less than 2 minutes of each other is not how you make people take those deaths seriously.
Also, I know this is turbo nerd mode, but I'm gonna be real, Miyu and Illya's reactions to Kuro's death kinda peeved me. They spent all of 4 pages goingbefore immediately moving on. The damn kaiju monsters hadn't even appeared yet at that point, and even if they did, its still wildly out of character for them to have accept Kuro's death so quickly. Illya's entire ideal, her entire motivation was to save the world with out having to sacrifice anyone to do that, she should have absolutely had a bigger response when it turns out she just ended up trading Kuro's life for Miyu's. Miyu even more so, since her entire thing was about her self-worth issues and not want anyone to die for her, so one of her closet, best friends who's fought the hardest for Miyu dying right in front of her should have had more of a reaction than 😔before going "Let's finish the fight!"
I'd assume Darius is using the internal singularity in the box to reproduce an original mythology, which is related to his using of Miyu's blood to write out a legend. Whatever just happened in the last chapter fulfilled all his checkboxes, so now that singularity is going to rewrite the world. My assumption is Illya is going to essentially be isekai'd once again into something like a Lostbelt and the goal will be to stop Darius before he can expand his plan all the way to the root of the tree like he wants. It's going to be related to those Original NP Do Not Steal Class Cards he was using, so we might even see OC Heroic Spirits. Whatever his plan is, it seems related to fulfilling something for Pandora, because it seems he's just Zouken mixed with the Einzberns.
No reminder was necessary, thanks.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
While I agree that in-universe that is a perfectly valid view, from the Doylistic perspective... it's still pretty much killing the series comercially. They do want to keep it going, but that's not going to be that easy with two thirds of the main market appeal gone. At the very least, if the change sticks, Prisma is going to take a popularity hit, especially in Japan, THE target market.
It'd make things particularly hard for the anime, since I can't see the otaku who were in for Kuro and Miyu being that invested on being sold the adaptation of the thing that takes them BOTH off the board at once.
And if it's undone, then, well, congratulations, you've just redone every other mahou shoujo there (I'm exaggerating, of course, but...)
Like I said before, it's a Catch 22. But now Hiroyama has made his bed and must sleep with the consequences one way or the other.
Last edited by OverMaster; November 27th, 2020 at 10:12 PM.
As you know, I am vindictively one-issue. Chloe comes back, or I leave. All other factors are irrelevant. Proudly dealing in absolutes so hard that it would cause a Sith Lord to vomit.
第三部完ッ！いえ大丈夫です。まだ続きます
^I guess Mahiro was just doing Jojo meme, part 3 is not over yet.
Technically it wasn't immediate, it took a month. Complaints a month ago were valid. Now it's just waiting to see how long until we can see her again and deal with whatever cast is left.
Are we just going to ignore the vast number of other magical girl cliches he's used in this series already?
As of now we just don't have enough info besides Darius taking "this wasn't even my final form" to new and disgusting levels.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
The point of Prisma was always "redoing every other mahou shoujo out there" and having a Fate work where optimism wins in the end and the perfect ending with everyone saved is achieved. I dunno why that'd be suddenly a bad thing. It's not like it'd be any more creative if we'd have gotten here with no deaths instead of deaths to be undone, so I really fail to see the point there
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
DINO GETTER,FUCK YESS
Spoiler:
When you kill a character to raise the stakes and what people immediately get out of that is that it and a previous death are going to get undone, possibly after slaughtering some other characters who will also come back, it just seems like a waste of time. Why take a months-long detour doing things that are going to get undone instead of just going directly to God Darius?
To build character? To achieve an actual character arc with ups and downs? People here keep complaining about how it's a waste of time and it's bad because "we all know they'll just come back" as if plot is the one and only thing that matters and if it's predictable it's bad by default. The thing that would make this a bad thing to do is trying to force an emotional response from a cheap death you know will not last, but it being "a detour in the plot" is not a valid complaint here, sorry.
Character building and arcs can be achieved through hundreds of other ways than doing changes that you'll then undo. Abuse the resource (which granted I'M NOT SAYING HAS HAPPENED HERE YET) and you end up with a Dragon Ball, where nobody evolves from any mass character deaths because everyone knows they just have to spend an afternoon collecting the Plot Device Balls to get back to the status quo. Or a Marvel/DC situation, where characters keep pretending every death is a major tragic blow even when everyone but Batman's parents have returned from the grave at least more than twice.
My position remains the same; if Hiroyama sticks with this, my respect for his mad cojones, pissed off as a Miyu fan as I am. But he won't get so much of a pass from most of the audience. If he doesn't, well, congratulations of making us wait years of delays for an arc that ends up with everything back to normal but "Illya is more mature now, I swear".
Unless Illya actually fucking snaps for good and starts acting like Stay Night Illya from now on even if Kuro and Miyu come back. Then you have my attention. But we all know it won't happen and "she totes changed" will be a hail to the flag right before we head back into more of the same.
For sure, and I'm not saying it's the only way or that it's always good, but I'm saying it's a genuine reason to do something like that even though it doesn't "further the plot" as it were. Of course, this is reliant on Hiroyama not only using this to build Illya's character, but to then also actually keep that development intact and not just have her go back to her previous self after the arc concludes. Which we'll just have to wait and see about.
I mean, the arc'd still end up with everything and everyone back to normal without the deaths, so I don't see how that's suddenly a problem. It's like the deaths is making people ultra judgy and even criticising shit that'd still happen without them. I fail to see how undoing them is a bad move. And the problem with DB and Marvel and DC is they keep going forever, with different writers even in the case of the western comics.
I don't think Prisma'll be that kind of long runner so once everything's solved, it's the end and that's it. No chance of what happens with DB and western comics
Agreed however that resetting Illya to status quo and not letting her develop's bad , but that's something that was a problem even without deaths
i basically agree with you about the whole thing
That's also why I dropped Digimon after the Tri movies. Apparently, "mature" means killing off friends just because "we totally have to".
I have to agree to disagree with the "Illya needs to wake up" crowd here. Illya's character development has been an ongoing theme all the way from the first chapters; she's been faced with harsh battles and harsher life lessons throughout the entire story, and just because she hadn't failed until now didn't lessen the impact on her. She learned her lessons and came out stronger for it, to the point where you actually start to believe she's a hero. What's happening now, though, isn't the culmination of everything Illya overcame and became faced with the truth. What would've been the culmination of her character arc is Kuro's death being the last horrible thing that happened in the story (and as much as I hated it, I would've considered it a fair trade for fulfilling the "failure" aspect of Illya's character arc).
What we have instead is the story dropping a gigantic eldritch abomination on top of Illya, built out of someone who should've died by now, seemingly constructed by the universe at large to serve the singular purpose of bellowing "fuck you for having ideals and optimism" into Illya's ear.
That's not the kind of story this started as, and I have severe trouble believing this is what the story will end as. Otherwise we cross the threshold from Madoka Magica-style grimdark into Minky Momo-style abrupt bad end, and that's where I have to draw the line. Ass-pulls aren't always a bad thing if executed well, and I'd bet the farm there will be an ass-pull, so there's no point in throwing a fit over it and I'll just patiently wait to see if Hiroyama handles this properly.
Last edited by Some Jerk; November 29th, 2020 at 04:32 AM.
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