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Thread: Prisma Illya

  1. #15181
    祖 Ancestor Hawkeye's Avatar
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    To get back on track, the goal post moving has become somewhat tiresome. I'm not so upset that nobody seemed to understand the actual plan at any point, Darius is a habitual liar and crossed motivations between the various actors in the situation led to various goals and interpretations based on the data they each had. If every person only has a part of the picture, its no surprise that none of them fully grasp the whole landscape until the end. That's basically fine.

    It's that it doesn't seem to matter what they hit the bastard with, he seems to defy common rationale without any explanation as to how. We've been told that Darius is basically a conceptual copy that passes from one member of his family to the next in a line of succession. So he's basically a form of living magecraft and yet he's been hit with Rulebreaker, which severs magical binding and contracts, but he reappeared on Julian after a bit, seemingly no worse for wear. Then he gets nailed with Kiritsugu's origin bullet. Now as basically a demented photocopy created through magecraft, surely the magic circuit annihilating bullet that basically stops mages from working should eradicate this bugger, right? Wrong again, he just comes back as a big flamey beard giant. Neither of these things would bother me in particular, we've seen others get around them before using various methods to bypass or ignore the worst of their effects, but if we ever get an explanation as to how Darius keeps dodging things that should reasonably be the bloody end of him, I clearly missed it, cause nothing seems to stick to the bastard.
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  2. #15182
    Moonbow TomPen94's Avatar
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    He'd make a great addition to the DAA list given his level of conceptual bullshittery. Just shy of a TATARI really...

    I also have a problem with Darius and how he just "survives" everything. Especially narrative wise it's kinda dumb that a central character murders herself for absolutely zero gain on any fronts. And I know we're time-traveling now, which means Kuro will probably be back and fine by the end, except that negates the whole sequence from the start, so the whole thing was pointless to begin with. In the end I don't think I'll ever fully accept Darius because of the narrative damage his presence has brought to the finale of 3rei.

  3. #15183
    Harbringer of Beguiling Light bassgs435's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalLoliLover View Post
    What place would that be?
    Reddit and Twitter. Haven't noticed that sentiment strongly here. Some random users do dislike the GO lolis, but nothing close to the clownshow that is Twitter or r/grandorder.

    Also to add my 2 cents to the topic at hand:
    I don't think Illya time travelling negates everything, and I even think not knowing how Darius keeps surviving is part of the point. The point being, Illya has preached time and time again she'd never give up and that she'd save everyone as a proper magical girl should. Darius is then, the ultimate obstacle. A seemingly invincible overpowered enemy who kills almost everyone and is real close to succeeding. It's now time for Illya to prove that her words aren't empty and that she's indeed the magical giril who will overcome even the most impossible of enemies to save everyone. Knowing how Darius keeps reving would, in my opinion, reduce the threat of him as a seemingly invincible enemy. If he seems to not have a method, he's all the more threatening and Illya not giving up even in the face of such a threat conveys her faith in her ideals and that her words aren't empty and that she WILL find a way even if it's almost impossible. You can throw a god-mode invincible asshole at her and she still has faith. Such is the strength of Illya's ideal
    Last edited by bassgs435; July 21st, 2021 at 08:31 PM.
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  4. #15184
    Deadpan Dead People LegalLoliLover's Avatar
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    Funny. I got banned off Reddit for saying that I like loli. For Twitter, nominally, it was a temp ban for putting "explicit content" on my PFP, but given that it was a bikini (no naughty bits showing), I refused to change it and just dropped the site.
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  5. #15185
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    Quote Originally Posted by LegalLoliLover View Post
    If you can't stand or enjoy the lolis, then you don't deserve the plot.
    Even more to the point, if you can't appreciate lolis on an aesthetic and symbolic level, you're missing a fair chunk of the meta-appeal. Illya's journey is one of a sheltered Otaku growing into a world-class Hero. There's a lot to gush about in what makes her journey so specifically moving, but in short, this otaku hero's journey resonates strongest with those who can trace the history of everything that goes into Prisma, loli and all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    To get back on track, the goal post moving has become somewhat tiresome. I'm not so upset that nobody seemed to understand the actual plan at any point, Darius is a habitual liar and crossed motivations between the various actors in the situation led to various goals and interpretations based on the data they each had. If every person only has a part of the picture, its no surprise that none of them fully grasp the whole landscape until the end. That's basically fine.

    It's that it doesn't seem to matter what they hit the bastard with, he seems to defy common rationale without any explanation as to how. We've been told that Darius is basically a conceptual copy that passes from one member of his family to the next in a line of succession. So he's basically a form of living magecraft and yet he's been hit with Rulebreaker, which severs magical binding and contracts, but he reappeared on Julian after a bit, seemingly no worse for wear. Then he gets nailed with Kiritsugu's origin bullet. Now as basically a demented photocopy created through magecraft, surely the magic circuit annihilating bullet that basically stops mages from working should eradicate this bugger, right? Wrong again, he just comes back as a big flamey beard giant. Neither of these things would bother me in particular, we've seen others get around them before using various methods to bypass or ignore the worst of their effects, but if we ever get an explanation as to how Darius keeps dodging things that should reasonably be the bloody end of him, I clearly missed it, cause nothing seems to stick to the bastard.
    To be clear, I wouldn't fault anyone for not getting a read on Darius or Julian's intent early on. They were meant to be enigmas up until we were given more insight into them. When I say basic elements of storytelling are often overlooked, I mean: recognizing themes of the story, the reason for shifts in tone, and why we wouldn't have another big breather segment after the final battles began.

    I've wondered about that too, but I feel like the howdunit is relatively irrelevant here. There are a ton of ways to justify it: greater strength of Mystery, disconnecting from the damaged portion, have a spawn point/leyline connection, displacement magecraft, etc. What matters most is that its narratively and thematically salient for his ghost to continue looming this late into the story. We've only been scratching the surface of his character and are only now getting to what's beneath it all.

    On a related note, Illya's character growth only reached it's peak after waking from the World's Texture and declaring she'd save everything. It was only then that she inherited the final Hero's Orign, Archer/Chloe, and became the ideal magical girl. It would've been terribly anti-climactic to end the story at an earlier point. We need this final conflict to bring everything full-circle.


    Quote Originally Posted by TomPen94 View Post
    He'd make a great addition to the DAA list given his level of conceptual bullshittery. Just shy of a TATARI really...

    I also have a problem with Darius and how he just "survives" everything. Especially narrative wise it's kinda dumb that a central character murders herself for absolutely zero gain on any fronts. And I know we're time-traveling now, which means Kuro will probably be back and fine by the end, except that negates the whole sequence from the start, so the whole thing was pointless to begin with. In the end I don't think I'll ever fully accept Darius because of the narrative damage his presence has brought to the finale of 3rei.
    Nah. Darius is exactly what he needs to be. It'd be absurd for the ultimate Magi of his world to be eliminated before any of his history was explored or before our protagonists grew in equal measure while facing him.

    Chloe's sacrifice not only forced Darius to play his final hand, it also forced Illya to adopt the perspective most foreign for her (aka. inherit the Origin of Archer/Chloe); and it's exactly why Illya has the strength of character to continue the fight now. On top of that, Chloe's farewell was a beautiful callback to HF Illya, which was a perfect tie-in to Chloe's personal journey from a hollow ghost to a fulfilled older sister. Despite initially feeling that Illya stole her chance at life, Chloe gradually came to embrace Illya's way of life. While Illya's mana is what sustained Chloe's physical form, Illya's spirit is what gave Chloe the strength to grow stronger and keep living (while carrying the weight of EMIYA). Rather than cry about how she wanted to live, like when she first started disappearing, Chloe's final moments were for the people she was leaving behind, who she then gave the strength to carry on. She turned what would've previously been personal despair for herself into a ray of hope for others.

    Our journey to the past has been largely informational so far, so it's hard to say what else might come of it. I can't imagine how Chloe could be brought back in a satisfying way, and I'm really not expecting it. Either way, all that makes sense for now is to have faith in Hiroyama. The story's been crafted brilliantly up to the present, so there's no reason to expect the ball will be dropped now.


    Quote Originally Posted by bassgs435 View Post
    Reddit and Twitter. Haven't noticed that sentiment strongly here. Some random users do dislike the GO lolis, but nothing close to the clownshow that is Twitter or r/grandorder.

    Also to add my 2 cents to the topic at hand:
    I don't think Illya time travelling negates everything, and I even think not knowing how Darius keeps surviving is part of the point. The point being, Illya has preached time and time again she'd never give up and that she'd save everyone as a proper magical girl should. Darius is then, the ultimate obstacle. A seemingly invincible overpowered enemy who kills almost everyone and is real close to succeeding. It's now time for Illya to prove that her words aren't empty and that she's indeed the magical giril who will overcome even the most impossible of enemies to save everyone. Knowing how Darius keeps reving would, in my opinion, reduce the threat of him as a seemingly invincible enemy. If he seems to not have a method, he's all the more threatening and Illya not giving up even in the face of such a threat conveys her faith in her ideals and that her words aren't empty and that she WILL find a way even if it's almost impossible. You can throw a god-mode invincible asshole at her and she still has faith. Such is the strength of Illya's ideal
    Hard agree. The greater the darkness, the greater the light. Darius sees all events that transpire, even the progress of our protagonists, as trifles that only make their inevitable loss more rife with despair. That unyielding faith in his path didn't have a match until recently, and is exactly the sort of foe that forces Illya to follow her ideals to their logical extreme/conclusion.

    People have often commented that 3rei is too dark and feels like a drastic departure from how the story started, but that's missing the point. Illya was only cosplaying as a magical girl in the beginning, mindlessly blasting enemies into oblivion. Light textures and dark origins. Now she risks her life to empathize with and save her enemies, wearing the reckless and desperate visage of a Berserker as she embodies the essence/origin of a magical girl. We might have darker textures now, but the soul of this series has never been brighter.

  6. #15186
    Oh there's no question that Darius's level of BS is blatantly stupid. All the more satisfying to see Illya eventually overcome, and acceptable in its origins, but stupid nonetheless. Characters of such power need to be hyped up in small doses throughout the story, and if that's done incorrectly, then they just look like that one whiny kid playing a roleplaying game that refuses to accept that he lost.

    This is, unfortunately, the risk you run by exploring a character after establishing the bulk of their skillset, rather than before. A character's ludicrous power is sometimes tied directly to the plot, and if said plot mandates that certain things can't be revealed yet, then their characterization will suffer and there's not much you can do about it. The "the villain has a secret weapon" suspense trope has been beaten to hell and back, but sometimes it's a necessary evil -- this is what we're seeing with Darius right now, and Hiroyama has clearly had this character planned since the very beginning of Prisma Illya​, so I'm willing to withhold my grievances until we get to the big reveal.

  7. #15187
    祖 Ancestor Hawkeye's Avatar
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    Hmm, you guys make a fair point. It was never my intention to argue that Darius should have died from the methods that have been employed against him. He is clearly the big villain and shouldn't be taken out until good and ready. I've simply been frustrated with the lack of explanation as to how he survived them when typical fashion for Nasuverse stories is to practically explain the gimmick the moment it is utilised; but you've made salient arguments, this is not a typical story of the type, this is a magical girl story, particularly one where crushing reality is the idealogical enemy of our protag, so it makes sense that the overwhelming weight of the villain not be fully divulged until good and ready.

    I am now however, deeply curious, cause the majority of Darius' other abilities have been explored. His ability to teleport, dodge attacks and block devastating blows like Excalibur have all been shown to stem from his ludicrous mastery over displacement magecraft, meanwhile, his bizarre and unknown class cards, as well as his giant army all seem to result from his 'writing' of legend using Miyu. So what the hell is left to allow him to survive the few blows that have actually landed on the bastard?
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  8. #15188
    Personally I suspect it has to do with the very thing he tried/succeeded in opening. The Pithos.

    Displacment Magecraft pushed to the absolute limit/mastery + with the knowledge Darius accumulated as a result of experimenting amd studying the Pithos to open it.


    If the Pithos literally contains a potentinal new world filled with possible futures, then conceptually the level of bullshit it contains /needed to open it in the first placed\ would be massive.

  9. #15189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Some Jerk View Post
    Oh there's no question that Darius's level of BS is blatantly stupid. All the more satisfying to see Illya eventually overcome, and acceptable in its origins, but stupid nonetheless. Characters of such power need to be hyped up in small doses throughout the story, and if that's done incorrectly, then they just look like that one whiny kid playing a roleplaying game that refuses to accept that he lost.

    This is, unfortunately, the risk you run by exploring a character after establishing the bulk of their skillset, rather than before. A character's ludicrous power is sometimes tied directly to the plot, and if said plot mandates that certain things can't be revealed yet, then their characterization will suffer and there's not much you can do about it. The "the villain has a secret weapon" suspense trope has been beaten to hell and back, but sometimes it's a necessary evil -- this is what we're seeing with Darius right now, and Hiroyama has clearly had this character planned since the very beginning of Prisma Illya​, so I'm willing to withhold my grievances until we get to the big reveal.
    So it's satisfying and acceptable in its origin, but somehow unquestionably stupid? That's an odd thing to say. What's more, you're talking like there's a singular way to hype this character type, which is blatantly untrue; but even if there was only one proper way to hype this character type, you're also complaining about the existence of tropes, so apparently you wouldn't like that either.

    Recurring elements of storytelling (aka. tropes) are used to wildly different effects in different stories. There's immense variation across and within genres, which is why some stories speak more strongly to others even if they're similar on the surface. If tropes are some inherent sin, then every story with ""characters" and "adventures" is way too played out and we just need to stop any future storytelling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye View Post
    Hmm, you guys make a fair point. It was never my intention to argue that Darius should have died from the methods that have been employed against him. He is clearly the big villain and shouldn't be taken out until good and ready. I've simply been frustrated with the lack of explanation as to how he survived them when typical fashion for Nasuverse stories is to practically explain the gimmick the moment it is utilised; but you've made salient arguments, this is not a typical story of the type, this is a magical girl story, particularly one where crushing reality is the idealogical enemy of our protag, so it makes sense that the overwhelming weight of the villain not be fully divulged until good and ready.

    I am now however, deeply curious, cause the majority of Darius' other abilities have been explored. His ability to teleport, dodge attacks and block devastating blows like Excalibur have all been shown to stem from his ludicrous mastery over displacement magecraft, meanwhile, his bizarre and unknown class cards, as well as his giant army all seem to result from his 'writing' of legend using Miyu. So what the hell is left to allow him to survive the few blows that have actually landed on the bastard?
    Personally, I'm fine waiting a while for those answers, especially when I'm so enthralled with the growth of our main trio. In fact, I wouldn't have wanted Darius in the spotlight until this point in the story. Darius is in many ways the polar opposite of our magical girls, and I like that his personality and abilities are all shrouded in mystery. Unlike our magical girls who wear their emotions on their sleeves and are straightforward about how they approach life, Darius is a mage who kills emotion to achieve his goals through extremely twisted/indirect means (further emphasized through his specialty being displacement magecraft). This inverse relationship is partly why having Darius begin as an enigma (black box) that our magical girls gradually shine a light on is so thematically and narratively satisfying. Darius has become the very thing he's trying to undo. An existence that can't be perceived beyond the surface level, as even he has lost sight of himself. There is a long-running theme about Textures and Origins within Prisma Illya; and whereas Darius is the master of Textures, literally existing as one over a thousand years and now covering the World in one, Illya is the inheritor of Origins, and having internalized the deeper feelings of all the stories/people she's come across, will be able to achieve what Darius never could: breaking beyond the surface and getting at what's inside.

    I believe the Cards were part of the Ainsworth's contribution to the Holy Grail War and made through displacement magecraft. The bizarre Noble Phantasms might've had their basis in the Other World since Gil didn't recognize them. Most of the failed/formless Cards probably came from attempts to displace powers from the Other side (as well as some Heroic Spirits). The legend written in Miyu's blood was certainly building to this kind of scenario, where Darius would establish his Story for mankind by becoming the basis for a new human history. We also know Darius had long given up on his original world, and had been carrying that Void around with the intent of accessing it, so his core/weak point might well reside in the "Fake Universe." I mentioned before that Darius and the Cube are similar, but there's probably more than a figurative connection between these indecipherable and inextricably linked entities.
    Last edited by StarlightStudios; July 22nd, 2021 at 11:31 PM.

  10. #15190
    Quote Originally Posted by StarlightStudios View Post
    So it's satisfying and acceptable in its origin, but somehow unquestionably stupid? That's an odd thing to say. What's more, you're talking like there's a singular way to hype this character type, which is blatantly untrue; but even if there was only one proper way to hype this character type, you're also complaining about the existence of tropes, so apparently you wouldn't like that either.

    Recurring elements of storytelling (aka. tropes) are used to wildly different effects in different stories. There's immense variation across and within genres, which is why some stories speak more strongly to others even if they're similar on the surface. If tropes are some inherent sin, then every story with ""characters" and "adventures" is way too played out and we just need to stop any future storytelling.
    I know I said something weird. My problem is that I'm still a little sour about how Darius's gigantic monster form was introduced; no build-up, no explanation, just, "you just fucking lose, gg" right in the "final" battle. Even knowing that the whole point was to give the girls an ultimate obstacle to overcome, wasn't Darius as a human enough of an obstacle already? I don't have a problem with tropes or overpowered characters in general, but sometimes they just get taken too far, and that's the vibe I get from Darius here. My initial impression was that Monster-Darius was just a flat-faced stop sign because the author didn't want to resolve the story yet, and that sort of thing really ticks me off.

    ...At least until the flashback arc started. What I was trying to say before is that I don't like how Darius was handled before, but I'm a little less judgmental after seeing there were actually reasons why beyond just being Generic Unstoppable Asshole Villain #6789 -- that Monster-Darius has a reason to exist other than being a flat-faced stop sign. I did not expect exploring Darius' past to actually be part of the main plot, let alone that we would be diving into it so quickly, but once it was clear we were going this route I simmered down a little.

  11. #15191
    Quote Originally Posted by Some Jerk View Post
    I did not expect exploring Darius' past to actually be part of the main plot, let alone that we would be diving into it so quickly, but once it was clear we were going this route I simmered down a little.
    In other words Prisma once again proves it's a decent story.


    It's good to be pleasantly suprised isn't it?

  12. #15192
    (There's no chapter this month)

  13. #15193
    祖 Ancestor TheSeaDragon's Avatar
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    I mean , Prillya attracted som kind of people. In a lati american GO facebook group, a guy posted his..."marriage act" with Illya .
    Tought, its a waifu collector game, single out someone because one drawing looks younger is a bit hypocritical
    Last edited by TheSeaDragon; July 25th, 2021 at 04:34 PM.

  14. #15194
    Deadpan Dead People LegalLoliLover's Avatar
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    What, did he make a marriage certificate? Or are you talking about the nuptials?
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  15. #15195
    祖 Ancestor TheSeaDragon's Avatar
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    oh, yeah something like a certificate. Fake, obviously . People mocked him but i dont think he cared , lol

  16. #15196
    Deadpan Dead People LegalLoliLover's Avatar
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    People make "do it for her" signatures here.
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  17. #15197
    Quote Originally Posted by Killua View Post
    (There's no chapter this month)
    Welp.

    Every chapter behind the schedule increases my concern of where the upcoming movie will have its end point.

  18. #15198
    Harbringer of Beguiling Light bassgs435's Avatar
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    The movie'd have started production like a year or 2 ago, and it's at that time where they'd decide the end point. Anime, even movies, isn't made in a few weeks. I don't know why chapters being delayed now would say anything of where the movie'll end
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  19. #15199
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    It only means the next movie will take its sweet freaking time coming along.

  20. #15200
    Quote Originally Posted by bassgs435 View Post
    Anime, even movies, isn't made in a few weeks.
    (Unless you're called Cloverworks *cough* WEP *cough*)

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