yo, what happened here ?
yo, what happened here ?
Rocks fall, everyone dies, GG.Originally Posted by TheSeaDragon
Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.
It's a catch 22.
Undo the deaths or revive them, and it's an ending of Mai HiME situation. Congratulations, you've just cheapened the whole by pressing the reset button.
Don't undo the deaths and you've turned the series away from what made it comercially viable in the first place. You've just killed two thirds of the merchandise away, good luck with selling goods of nothing but Traumatized Illya. This would be a genius stroke if this were the final act of the series and you go out on a bang after subverting your audience's expectations, but let's be fucking honest here, the lolicon otakus who keep this subfranchise alive by buying your Kuro/Miyu products aren't going to stick by this point, at least nowhere as much as before.
Even worse if you get drunk on this and now kill Miyu's brother, Gil and/or Angelica for good to top yourselves. Keep breaking enough toys and you'll soon be left with nothing to play with in the sandbox, this is the Ultimate Marvel/Ultimatum lesson.
Although I'll personally forgive you if you make Suzuka and Tatsuko Magical Girl Yaoi Loving Prisma Mangaka and Mahou Baka Sapphire to fill the void. That, I'd be glad with.
A forever ago, Angelica said that something (implied to be Grain) was beginning to pop up. So could this still become a Notes. world, or has that been abandoned?
Can't believe Darius displaced God.
Yeah, I might've (begrudgingly) been willing to accept Kuro's death, but the chances of Kuro and Miyu staying dead? Less than zero. It might've been possible if the story was ending, but Hiroyama has confirmed that the tale is still going, so there's no way their deaths will stick; Illya's relationship with Kuro and especially Miyu is the crux of Prillya's plot, and to take that away means it's not Prillya anymore.
Something is going to pull the story out of this dark place it's headed to. Let's just hope Hiroyama put some serious effort into making that something not silly. He's clearly had this planned out for a long, long time, and he handled Kuro's heroic sacrifice pretty well, so I'd like to be optimistic.
Last edited by Some Jerk; November 26th, 2020 at 05:08 PM.
I’d expect that the big world reset will just revive both of them. Unless the author is going to go grimdark, I’d expect another Illya brooding arc for 3-5 chapters followed by some realization once again.
I will gladly sacrifice this Illya if it means getting a Second Magic or Archer bootstrap paradox ending.
598,535,004 (NA)
Well, there's 3 ways this can go:
The good: Tales of Symphonia where the entire party apart from Lloyd sacrifice themselves but then are rescued by either Kratos or Zelos
The bad: That edgy Nanoha novel
The series suicidal: Like I keep mentioning about Once Upon a Time's Rumpelstiltskin
Just end it all already~
No, like with what Nanoha did to Triangle Heart, the spinoff must overtake the original.
>implyng it hasn't already
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At least, as far as its Illya vs. the OG's Illya is concerned
My Fanfics. Read 'em. Or not.McJon01: We all know that the real reason Archer would lose to Rider is because the events of his own Holy Grail War left him with a particular weakness toward "older sister" types.
Well I was wondering what was gonna happen with Darius' stone tablets, nice to see they weren't just forgotten about. On the other hand, WHAT IN THE NAME OF JESUS TAPDANCING CHRIST WAS THAT?!
Okay, well, I think I can rationalise this in a way that, while not exactly saving it, doesn't make it a total asspull and Kuro's death totally meaningless. Basically, she used a mage killing bullet that messes up magic circuits, but clearly Darius' whole 'become god' plan has removed such a thing from consideration. It would've been his Achilles' heel if he were still the phantom clinging to his descendants, but now he's become some sort of primordial titan outside the span of human history, a plan which he's been tooling up for all of 3rei, we just never got the full details until now. At the very least, this may provide them a clue down the road, perhaps inspiring the use of another famous nasuverse gun? Perhaps these giants, like Pandora are a story that never played out in Miyu's world and this will lead into the a Gigantomachia, I sadly lack the data to form a hypothesis entirely.
I don't think Miyu is dead, even if she's been Grailed, it was stated this phenomenon is the same as five years ago, which was also a use of her power, so I think changing from a human to a wish machine isn't as fatal for Miyu's people as it was for Iri. I think she can come back from this as its sorta happened before? I think that will be part of Illya's upcoming arc, admittedly, a little lazy as we're essentially kicking the can of 'Saving Miyu' down the road again, just with giant headless monsters into the mix this time.
Shiro can apparently stand shin deep in grail crap with no ill effects, so if the next arc is gonna result in everyone mobilising, I can only imagine he'll be standing in for Kuro as a sort of Shiro Alter due to not wearing his wellies.
I still have no frickin' idea what Tanaka is, if she's truly supposed to represent Hephaestus or some other divine entity, either way, if she's finally got her memories back, maybe at last we'll get some answers instead of half-truths and speculations. I don't think he favour from Gil will be anything as drastic as time travel, but if there's a Deus Ex Machina that can scoop our team up from the end of the world, the King of Heroes fits the bill pretty well, so I reckon that's the role he'll play here just cause it'd be boring for him to let it end like this.
While most of the Class Cards are destroyed, there's at least 4 still out there, not mentioning the ones Angelica was going to use against Gil in the underground that we never got clarity on, so perhaps those will be part of Illya's war chest for the next leg, at the very least there's gotta be a reason for the Gil and Magni cards to have survived all this bollocks.
Galleries for Stuff
Honestly while I get how this seems out of left field for Hiroyama to do by killing off not just Kuro, but Miyu as well, making it out like this goes against everything the series had and has is kind of disingenuous? There've always been these purveying undertones that Illya's idealistic world is a dream she has to wake up from eventually. Part 1 saw her being shown magic wasn't like the anime and manga she looked up to and romanticized, showcased both through Miyu, but Iri as well in the absolute tonal shift of a scene that is her mother dropping the happy go lucky idea of this world and giving Illya a harsh dose of reality by talking about her seal.
The cracks were already showing there, and in that same arc, we also got our first hint that this life Illya led was a complete lie that only existed because Kiritsugu and Iri ran away from their problems.
Then 2wei happened, and Kuro split from Illya. Just when Illya's life was returning to some semblance of normalcy, that normalcy that more and more cracks were showing in, we learned Illya wasn't even Illya. Because Kuro was. This understandably led to Illya flat-out rejecting Kuro, and why? Well, her trying to kill her wasn't helping the matter, but more importantly Illya wanted her normal life back. And this, Illya discovers through Kuro, was ultimately selfish. Because in doing so she ignored the pain that she had unknowingly been dealing Kuro by taking her life in the first place. And Illya has to come to understand that for the two to finally make up. It's when this finally happens that Kuro is given her chance at life, and again, life goes on.
But then, there's Miyu. Throughout the entire course of the story we've been getting small hints at who she was, how she fit into the puzzle and when we finally learned, it blew everything we knew wide open. Illya's life was a perfect one, her world had no issues, but that's because Illya was raised in her own narrowminded world where she was sheltered from all of the problems. Her parents were absent, because they were dealing with those problems.
And Illya never knew this.
But Miyu is the exact opposite. She's the Illya of her story, but her role is that of FSN's Illya. She knew from birth she was a child of God, she never had any of that hidden from her, and unlike Illya where she was protected and sheltered, Miyu was coveted. Not just because she was a grail, but because she was born into a world that was dying. Shirou tried to hide that from her, he tried to do what Iri and Kiritsugu did to Illya, and that ended in her being taken away.
This is all a painful wake up for Illya as she's been forced to confront all of this throughout the course of 3rei. She wanted to be selfish, to save both the world and Miyu, but just like with Kuro, that's only resulted in suffering.
And now, she's paid the ultimate price as the two she considered her closest friends are gone, and just like at the start of this arc, when she awoke in the cold forest of Fuyuki, a harsh, bleak parallel of the world she was taken from, she's alone. And now she has to deal with this again.
Prisma Illya has always been Illya's story, Kuro and Miyu are incredibly important, but it is still Illya's story most of all. We've watched this character grow, and I believe, she's going to grow even further from this. Because denying those problems that plague your life aren't how you grow, they only lead to this outcome.
Now, Kuro has died in vain. Miyu was taken in the blink of an eye. And Darius has succeeded in overwriting the world they tried so hard to save.
If you want something further to back this up, take a look at Summer Prillya's lines. She's a gag character, yes, but the way she's written is so... peculiar. As her character goes from this happy go lucky kid due to Chaldea's idea of an eternal summer vacation, to someone kind of melancholic? As she comes to fully understand that those days... don't last forever, and what she has, she needs to and always will cherish.
I think back to earlier lines in this manga, a bit of her thoughts that end off the chapter before they go off to fight Beatrice and Darius, as they all end off the night together.
"We didn't realize it, but this would be our last night spent together like this."
Just as Illya caps off this chapter from past tense as she denies what happened to her in this moment. Everything has been leading to this, it always has been.
I don't know if these choices will stick, I think it's completely within the realm of possibility that Prillya could end with both worlds being saved by merging completely. Rewriting history so the Holy Grail War never existed, but also so the characters we've come to love, who Illya values, have been there from the start in this world that's created.
But, that could also be Illya falling back into her ideals and pulling the wool over her, and our eyes further. And if there's anything I've garnered from writing this, Hiroyama's intent has always been that Illya needs to wake up to the truth of her reality. And if he goes through with that? This would complete her arc entirely.
Last edited by Winter; November 27th, 2020 at 12:19 AM.
~ I love and admire beautiful stories ~Unlimited Blade Works' true Good End: https://www.bilibili.com/video/av569...50898884336512Spoiler:
I'm mostly bothered by the delivery. They beat Julian with Stand Darius, then Darius assumes direct control and destroys the Saber card. They use a triple combo attack and shatter Darius, but he comes back as Infinite Darius and destroys the Berserker and Rider cards. Kuro uses the foreshadowed Origin Bullet and dies, but now God Darius appears and eats Miyu. This is all done in short chapters a month apart, covering a day that has spanned years.
If someone reaction or intention with this panel
is that this girl needs to have this idea beaten and traumatized out of her, that the purest form of mean-spiritedness.
No its not. Even if this was always Hiroyama's goal, the story was setting up to be about Illya fighting with all her might to get her perfect happy ending. If the intention from the start was that Illya even attempting, even having the idea to try and save her friends is what ultimately lead to her ending with the worst possible ending, that is utterly, disgustingly, offensively miserable, its hard to even put into words.making it out like this goes against everything the series had and has is kind of disingenuous?
If the stories direction really is to be that Illya's Choice was a mistake, ending with Miyu and Kuro staying dead, that makes Prisma Illya legitimately one of the most dower, bitter stories ever told. Even Magical Girl Raising Project and Magical Girl Site wouldn't go so far to be that ugly, and that isn't even an exaggeration. You'll have to go to stories like Here and There, Now and Then or Grave of the Fireflies to have a story that intent on being just so utterly miserable.
But, that could also be Illya falling back into her ideals and pulling the wool over her, and our eyes further. And if there's anything I've garnered from writing this, Hiroyama's intent has always been that Illya needs to wake up to the truth of her reality. And if he goes through with that? This would complete her arc entirely.
Oh great
This story again
No let's count it, let's actually count it how many times type-moon has done a story about tHe FlAwS oF iDeAlIsM
Fate/Zero
Fate/Stay Night UBW
Fate/Stay Night Heaven's Feel
We're already at three, and I don't need to explain why. I exclude the Fate route because its more about empowering Shirou's ideal, even if its really just set up for those ideals being challenged. I'm choosing to be conservative with the number.
Fate/Apoctypha is another one, with Atalanta. Amakusa too, honestly, but we'll just count it as one causes it the same story.
So thats 4 times we've been told this same story.
Fate/Extra also has a plot with it, so there's 5 times. I'm sure FGO has done it, but I'm not familiar enough so I won't count it.
So, at minimum, this is the 6th time this franchise is doing this exact same story beat. Cool man. Awesome. Please tell me about how War is Bad and the Cycle of Revenge next, thanks.
Hold on, let's count again. How many times has the lesser grail of a story been grailed/died?But Miyu is the exact opposite. She's the Illya of her story, but her role is that of FSN's Illya.
Fate/Zero
Fate Route (Illya dies a year or so after it ends)
UBW Route
HF Route
sure looking forward to seeing this story
again
for the 5th time
If you look as Prillya as a Magical Girl story, maybe this story progressions seems out of left field and subversive (its really not) but as a Type-Moon work, this is the safest, more tried and true, most cliche possible route for the story to take.
The idea that hardship and trauma is necessary for someone to become the best version of themselves is repugnant and incredibly toxic. I've had my fair share of trauma, when I say I find characters like Fate/Stay Night Shirou and Kara no Kyoukai Fujino very relatable and hits close to home, I'm being very, very literal. As someone who's been through Some Shit, I am tired of this fucking shitty gross idea that trauma is some sort of magic cure all that leads people to become the best versions of themselves and they come out shining brighter than before, and they use the experience to grow as a person, like fuck off. That's actually complete bullshit and I'm really tired of that being apparently the defacto "mature" directions stories want to take. I don't want to get into it, but I'm not saying stories should all be about people going through bad things and shutting down, sometimes people do come out on the other end a-okay, or uses it as a source of strength. But this prevailing notion that trauma is not just inevitable but necessary for a person to grow is gross. You want relatablity and realism? Illya is gonna need to take medication and see a specialist for the rest of her life, and she'll probably still have episodes related to it well into her 50s. No one has their hopes and ideals crushed that hard and come out on the other side fine.We've watched this character grow, and I believe, she's going to grow even further from this. Because denying those problems that plague your life aren't how you grow, they only lead to this outcome.
To be clear, KnK 5 and Fate/Extra are my favorite stories ever, so I'm not unreceptive to those stories. I think Steins;Gate is one of the greatest stories ever told, and Okabe is actually traumatized in a somewhat realistic way in S;G0. What makes Prillya in particular such a sour example is that if this is the direction it wants to go in, it's a betrayal of what it was setting up to me. Maybe that's the idea all along, maybe there were hints, that doesn't change the fact its a betrayal. Again, Illya's Choice, such an incredibly powerful moment that was genuinely life affirming for so many people, not just me. Fate/Stay Night, Fate/Zero, KnK, yada yada, all those stories made it clear their tone from the start. They didn't have a big emotional scene with Shirou screaming out that he WILL save everyone, and actually play it off as a big deal, and have it be the catalyst for another characters own development, only to then turn around go full Mind of Steel. Even if Fate/Stay Night is about challenging Shirou ideals, it was obvious early one that this is what its about, not just "teased" between happy go lucky slice of life, and hot-blooded emotional moment to reinforce the notion that this character refuses to give in to fatalism only yo then have the idea that fatalism is the truth of the world shoved down their throat like a crest worm.
If the ultimate goal of Illya's choice, if Hiroyama's entire reasoning for that scene was to ultimately just be set up to say "Illya is wrong" and to teach her how wrong she is buy having it blow up in her face, to break her, to beat that idea out of her, I don't know what to say other than that just makes Hiroyama an asshole.
tl;dr
Last edited by SheriTansorma; November 27th, 2020 at 03:00 AM.
Displacement magecraft OP, pls nerf.
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I forgot what it was called but that one edgy Nanoha doujin was better than literally everything in ViViD. And the less I say about Strike the better.
Last edited by Deathhappens; November 27th, 2020 at 10:27 AM.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
Reminder this is the Prisma thread and not Nanoha thread. This isn't the place to start a discussion over the Nanoha franchise just because someone referenced it to explain in few words one of his 3 ideas of where Prisma could go from here
Spoiler:
Spoiler:
DINO GETTER,FUCK YESS
Spoiler:
I'm surprised there's so much discussion in regards to the manga tackling and criticising Illya's idealism. To me it's absurdly clear it just won't.
This Darius destroying the world stuff is just set-up so that when Illya undoes everything and saves everyone, it hits harder.
You guys would have a valid argument if Kuro's sacrifice actually mattered, but it was immediately invalidated lmao
This and I also hate how this is like the seventh time they reveal the real purpose of the Ainzbern's plan thing this arc.
I also see everything being undone as a possibiity, but wouldnt that made the whole thing cheap? If illya still manages to save everyone , it would not be like, lest say HF ending, where you know something was saved but something was loss, what happened in this chapter feels like a FSN bad end, it would be like after a bad end, shiro just comes back and still manages to save the world , sakura and even Saber , without losing his body.The alternative of nothing be undone and illya having to live with this trauma is not much better, it would make hiroyama just a less talented urobuchi
By the way, the best thing is still the artwork
Last edited by TheSeaDragon; November 27th, 2020 at 01:06 PM.
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