Gundam Thread

[Jase]

Can you read? I said "main Gundam series".

As in. TV series.

Not OVA's. They're entirely out of the scope of the major installments of Gundam, and have no bearing on AGE in any meaningful way.

Why would you compare AGE against 0080/0083/8th MS Team (by god, they aren't even AU like AGE) when you could compare it with Mobile Suit Gundam, Zeta, ZZ, Victory, Crossbone, After War X, Wing, SEED, and 00? That just makes no sense.

The ORIGINS is much more likely to be an OVA, and it's UC, so you can easily compare it against the UC OVA greats, or Unicorn.

[Alulim]

Then again, those may be from the UC timeline but they aren't exactly 'main'.

Read this part.

Can you read?

I throw that right back at you, you don't have to get so huffy. I have no problems with AGE whatsoever.

[Jase]

... then why even bring it up if you already know your examples are irrelevant?

They aren't main at all is the whole point. They are beloved series of mine, but to use them while talking about a major TV installment of Gundam is 100% erroneous.

[Alulim]

I use all gundam to talk about a new gundam series. I like to see how they all add up in the grand scheme of things.

[Jase]

That's entirely inane.

The entire point of Gundam is that it is so large, they will try to aim different parts of the franchise at different demographics. To have them mix as a continuous element and please the same people is exactly not the point.

The UC main series began the franchise, and the fans created in that era are persisted with very adult OVA's featuring older characters who deal with much greyer, grittier titles, matching their age now of around 30 to 40 years of age.

Each AU Gundam on the other hand explicitly aims to bring in fresh blood. Entries like G Gundam, Gundam X, and Gundam Wing have primarily focused on a slightly younger demographic from around 8 to 14. More recent AU Gundam such as 00 and SEED have aimed a bit higher in the 12 to 16 range.

All AGE is doing is pulling the range back to 8 to 14. It's as Gundam as you can get.

And Bandai is doing this 100% knowing AGE is aimed at exactly none of you guys. Because for you guys, there's Unicorn and the upcoming the ORIGINS. Unicorn manages to tie the UC old guard together with the newly initiated Gundam fans who are now around 18~28 from all the AU Gundams from the past decade or so, and the ORIGINS will build upon that by giving all of you a sober recreation of the very first, original Gundam, aimed once again at that very same demographic.

Trying to read Gundam as a whole and comparing one part of itself with another is akin to trying to compare the Teen Titans cartoon with Batman Begins. It just doesn't fly.

[Cascade]

That sort of global Gundam idea almost seems appropriate with the Tominio Turn A "all Gundams end here" approach, but Turn A ended up regarded basically like another AU, so that says a lot about the validity of that approach. Fact is that they're all separate products. You can't join or associate AU together with UC, and comparing them is like comparing apples to oranges.

You can compare different AU series and UC series within their categories, but never between those two major groups. The exception probably being Gundam SEED as it really is a lot like a modern retelling of original MSG except aimed at kids and fujoshi. For example, you can compare Gundam Wing and Gundam 00 because the two series are both AU and both very similar in approach and target demographic, and that comparison might be interesting or even compelling, but there's really no basis for comparing something like G Gundam to War in the Pocket.

As for AGE, I was initially extremely put off by the art style, but the premise won me over at Anime Expo's Gundam Panel, where they explained more about it. I think it has promise and I'll probably watch it after all, along with Origins and the rest of Unicorn.

Sunrise knows it already can count on old Gundam fans to watch anything UC, so like Jase said, there is no reason why they need to appeal to you specifically with a new AU series.

That being said, I disagree that when comparing something specific like "the age of the Gundam protagonist," you can't compare characters from TV and OVA series. The difference in medium is much less significant than the difference between UC and AU I feel, and I don't think there is a correlation between whether a Gundam series is OVA or not and the character's age. Maybe I'm missing something, but there doesn't seem to be any logical reason why you can't look at OVA or movies when trying to examine the average age of Gundam protagonists. If you were comparing something that actually had to do with the medium, like animation quality, length or conciseness of narrative, then I could understand.

As a rule, AU or not, the protagonists in Gundam start young and sometimes age. Characters like Shiro in 08th MST, who are already accredited officers and can drink, get married, etc., are a small minority.

The AGE characters may age considering the way the series is going to span a century. That is not really any different from how Amuro starts out at 15 in the original series and is about 30 by CCA. The art style makes them look like elementary schoolers, but the age range is the same. (They're older than Uso even.)

[Grant]

AGE might work. Maybe. I will say that I do hate the art but I'll give it the standard three episodes before I decide whether to drop it or not.

[Alulim]

AGE will be gundam and all that comes with it, simple as that.

[Grant]

Not all Gundam is equal. My rankings go as follows: Great. Good. Decent. Poor. Bad.

Mobile Suit Gundam: Good

Zeta Gundam: Great

ZZ Gundam: Poor

Victory Gundam: Decent

G Gundam: Good

Gundam Wing: Good

Endless Waltz: Decent

After War: Poor

0083: Initially Good, then Poor

08th MS Team: Good

Gundam Seed: Good, then Poor, then Bad

Seed Destiny: Decent, then Bad

00: -------

[Cascade]

I can't really rate too many since I've started and stopped a lot of series, but as a rule I actually really prefer anything in UC that was not directed by Tomino. I personally feel he's actually one of the worst directors in the franchise, even if he was the originator of the concept and had a lot of great ideas. But then again, that might be due to him directing mostly the TV series in UC and not the OAV or movies; I did like his directing of F91 and I've always felt it was superior to CCA on every level despite originally being planned for a TV series and adapted for feature length film rather hastily.

As far as AUs go though, it's a bit easier for me. Older UC Gundam has been hard to get my hands on for years in comparison.
A: G Gundam
B: Wing, 00 (First Season)
C: SEED
D: 00 (Second Season)
F: SEED Destiny

Haven't seen X though. Still gotta watch it.

Note that I did not list Turn A because I stick with Tomino's approach and do consider it both AU and UC. It is S on both charts regardless.

[Alulim]

Not all Gundam is equal. My rankings go as follows: Great. Good. Decent. Poor. Bad.

Good or bad, gundam is still gundam.


Also, Turn A: Great

[Jase]

That's my whole point. A Gundam isn't just a Gundam. It's entirely specious to try and equate G Gundam with War in the Pocket. It just doesn't work. And you have no real convincing counterpoint other than circular logic. It's ridiculous.

Anyways, the age thing is just, the statement "they're so young" is totally fallacious, consider practically ever other Gundam protagonist is the exact same age. The only exception is a super robot Gundam, a few shows aimed at older teens who are one year older, and a bunch of OVA's that are aimed at post 20 to 40 year olds.

The protagonist is generally set at an age that the aimed demographic is. So complaining a show marketed towards young children (like almost every other TV broadcast Gundam) has characters that are "too young" (despite the MAJORITY of protagonists in the franchise being that precise age!) is entirely pointless and a terrible reason to champion as justification for skepticism.

To say "Gundam is just a Gundam" is like trying to say a "Superhero comic is just a superhero comic", as if the Sandman and Teen Titans are comparable commercial enterprises, and it's worthwhile to complain about how the latter doesn't "live up" to the former.

[Alulim]

I am not saying a gundam is just a gundam.

I am saying that despite their vast differences they are, at the core, gundam.



And I am perfectly fine with the protag's ages.

[Cruor]

Let's see here...

Since they're going for a rather old-school kind of look for the character designs and some of the mech designs, it might be possible that AGE could end up being the "Gurren Lagann" of Gundam. What with the possible chances of having shout-outs and callbacks to its predecessors while ultimately maintaining something exciting and fresh. This show could very well end up being a love letter to the franchise as whole.

My thoughts on the matter. We'll see how correct I am come October.

Uh... G Gundam was way more like Gurren Lagann then this is gonna be.

The protagonists are 13, 14, and 15.
Basically every Gundam protagonist that ever existed in a main Gundam series is one of those ages, with G Gundam and Gundam 00 as exceptions (Setsuna's 16).

Real talk. You guys know shit about the franchise.

Amuro was technically like 20-something in CCA. There's also Ryu Roots and all those other stories Alulim mentioned.

Let's see:
UC
0079 - Amuro Ray - 15
Zeta - Kamille Bidan - 17
ZZ Gundam - Judau Ashta - 14
CCA - Amuro Ray - 29
Unicorn - Banagher Links - 16
F91 - Seabook Arno - 17
Victory Gundam - Uso Ewin - 13

And that's not counting people like Ryu Roots (22) from Gundam Sentinel and whatnot. (Note: my original post before lots of edits included way more people) But yeah, UC is supposed to be the most 'realistic' setting. I can't remember the explanation for Judau for why he was so good at piloting (outside lolNewtype) but Amuro technically knew everything about the machine before he even got in and Uso kinda spent his days climbing onto enemy mobile suits and was getting 9999999 or some shit on simulator scores cause that's all he did all day for 90% of his life or something.

<Herp derp slowking here. I should stop typing up posts then forgetting about them and post it hours later.

Mobile Suit Gundam: Good

Zeta Gundam: Great

ZZ Gundam: Poor

Victory Gundam: Decent

G Gundam: Good

Gundam Wing: Good

Endless Waltz: Decent

After War: Poor

0083: Initially Good, then Poor

08th MS Team: Good

Gundam Seed: Good, then Poor, then Bad

Seed Destiny: Decent, then Bad

00: -------

My rating:

0079: Decent.
Zeta: Good?
ZZ: Good
Victory: Good
G Gundam: Decent
Wing: Good
Endless Waltz: Mediocre
Gundam X: Good then bad
Turn A: Great
0083: Meh
08th: Good
Seed: Decent to crap as the series hits the midpoint iirc
Destiny: Mediocre
00 (first season): Good
00 (second season): Mediocre
Trailblazer: Mediocre
F91: Good
CCA: Inbetween decent and good. It needed better music. Or rather they needed to know when to play music. The climax went on without even bothering to keep excitement up. Turn A had a similar problem but it wasn't as apparent
Unicorn: Decent (I have a really strong dislike for Banagher and the background setup though)

[Cascade]

The original reason for Uso being so good despite being 13 was that he was related to Char, but they dropped that for some reason.

[Jase]

I think it's kind of silly to count Amuro's age in CCA when he was a protag in 0079. The only reason he was that age is because, you know, he's not a vampire and has to age. It doesn't change that he was 15 at the beginning, and that falls right into the ages of the 3 protagonists of AGE.

Not to mention. AGE spans 100 years, so at least one of them will be at least 113 years old by the end of the show ;)

Unicorn is an OVA so it's entirely irrelevant to what I'm talking about. Same with Sentinel, since it's a serialized novel, so it's not even ANIMATED (not to mention, it's explicitly known to be one of the most mature Gundam titles out there).

And why even talk about the excuses given for why kids are able to pilot Gundam? We don't even KNOW anything about these kids in AGE. They could have perfectly equal tacked on excuses for explaining why they are good at piloting :P

Camille was 16 at the beginning of Zeta.

Seriously, demographics are everything when writing and planning a story. To try and compare a TV broadcast, quad-cour show aimed at bringing in fresh blood into the franchise and selling model kids, from the 8~18 demographic, with OVA's or short novels that were made targeted at already established fans who are comparatively older is just every sort of weak prejudice justification

[Cruor]

Yeah, I wasn't counting Ryu really. My original post had everyone involved in UC then I removed it after I read (4 or so hours later >_>;) you saying something about sidestories or something and not being series' or whatever so I removed him and kinda didn't really feel like changing my whole post.

[Jase]

Oh, okay. Lucky you, I wasn't around to read the original xD

[Alulim]

All in all, I look forward to AGE. I hope it doesn't disappoint~

[Jase]

0079: I'm to old to enjoy it
Zeta: Excellent.
Double Zeta: Ambivalent. It's an alright show, but doesn't fit as Zeta's sequel. Also the beginning of when funnels and bits start being absolutely retarded.
Char's Counterattack: No matter how hard I try, I can't really enjoy this one. Char and Amuro just act way too stupid, way too much of the time. I never enjoyed their spat over Lalah.
F91: Good standalone, wish there were more.
Victory: I'm fond of this one against my best judgment. Katejina is the best character to hate, ever.

0079 Movies: Good.
Zeta Movies: Great.
War in the Pocket: Excellent.
Sentinel: Excellent.
Crossbone: A lot of fun, but a bit too silly to feel like a proper follow up on F91.
igLoo 1: Enjoyable, fun series. First episode is informative.
igLoo 2: Very fun perspective on A Baoa Qu in an episode
igLoo 3: Random death lady was annoying, but cool to see Feddie grunts get some love.

G Gundam: Lots of fun. Not very Gundam.
Gundam Wing: Soft spot since this is one of the first Gundam I watched. It's at least decent, but has some bad excesses.
Endless Waltz: Mariemaia makes it worth it.
Endless Waltz Movie: First version of EW I watched ww
After War Gundam X: I like this one a lot. Garrod and Tifa are great protagonists, and it's probably one of the most reflexively written Gundam in the franchise. It knows what's up.

Turn A: One of top favourite anime, and my favourite Gundam period.

SEED: Watchable.
SEED Destiny: Not watchable.

00 S1: Great.
00S2: Bad.
Trailblazers: Unwatchable, if not for so bad it's good.

Unicorn: Great so far.