Tsukihime Remake Thread - NOT THE SPOILER THREAD

[aldeayeah]

ever heard of danbooru

It's not a story Tumblr would tell you.

[Crown]

ever heard of danbooru

gelbooru master race

well, not really, I prefer danbooru

[Balthizar]

Gelbooru user here. What makes danbooru better?

[Leftovers]

Mostly that I have Platinum.

- - - Updated - - -

But before that, quality control and enough porn to get by without seeing cursed shit. Gelbooru's only other use (narrower faceclaim searches with more tags) became a pain in the dick when the site disabled clicking for Adblock users.

[Crown]

Speaking of cursed shit, sometimes when I scout pixiv for Tsuki porn I still stumble across that one guy putting Ciel into some degenerate shit. I'm no longer sickened but actually impressed by how long he's been doing it. That's some steel dedication. Almost a daily dose.

And that guy uploading the same Karen illustration but with different advice or something like that.

[eddyak]

What little I remember of Danbooru was that it'd take bloody ages to load a decent page of pictures, even at off-peak times.

[aldeayeah]

Mostly that I have Platinum.

You peasant, I'm a Builder (back when it was easier to become Contributor, I guess)

Also, what the Christ, evazion is now the Owner? I remember vouching for him to become a mod... that was... uh... in 2010?

[SteelBeowulf]

Cursed shit or not, I support a platform that is neutral regardless of the content depicting. Moreover, Pixiv's biggest problems are its abysmal customer support and utility functions. Customer support is shit not just for western artists but for Japanese artists as well, many Japanese artists got their account banned/suspended with little indication on what is the nature of the suspension. In the end, people just speculate that it must be because their mosaic isn't enough. Pixiv also has shit utility, before 2019 when an artist account gets banned or suspended, at least I know who got banned or what image got removed, well not anymore. This is especially painful when it comes to Korean artists who are mass removing their contents because apparently, South Korea is just worse an asian Australia.

Anyway, aren't boorus just aggregates images as a third-party repository? How are they better for artists who use a platform that is not for artist-centric content to begin with, a platform that spies and bans anime/18+ artists because Jack Conte is in denial about the nature of his platform (and probably a puritan), a Japanese platform whose business model really does looks like "Sit on our asses and make money". (I almost forgot there's newground, but their tagging system is shit, I can't blame them in that either)

[Fox Room]

Anyway, aren't boorus just aggregates images as a third-party repository? How are they better for artists who use a platform that is not for artist-centric content to begin with, a platform that spies and bans anime/18+ artists because Jack Conte is in denial about the nature of his platform (and probably a puritan), a Japanese platform whose business model really does looks like "Sit on our asses and make money". (I almost forgot there's newground, but their tagging system is shit, I can't blame them in that either)

Yeah. They're either nothing or probably sometimes an outright pain to artists, either way hardly a boon. But yeah uh, shit's hard for artists, especially R18 artists, what with the weird cycle of puritan porn purges...

[neveron]

The big issue for Twitter/Tumblr et. al. is that you aren't the customer, you're the product, and the actual customer (advertisers) are really picky about what content they want their brand associated with.

And if the advertisers start to complain about the pornography, well, away it goes. There's a reason that porn sites (and 4chan etc.) have their own strange species of ads - they're the only ones that want to be associated with porn!

Also, of course, there's a bunch of laws regarding porn and if you do host porn you need to hire people to moderate it and get rid of the illegal stuff that'd maybe get the site in trouble. Just putting up a blanket "no porn" rule does a lot of work in ridding yourself of that liability.

[Ubergeneral]

There's no "trolling", because he never went "oh it's a different universe LOL gotcha suckers", there was just a footnote at the end that said "yeah some really minor details are different so just think of it like an alternate version of the backstory explained in FSN". Like Leftovers said, it's just a means of saying "look, urobuchi didn't get all the details exactly right but that doesn't matter, don't think too hard about it" but because it's Nasu he's justifying it with a timeline answer.


Except the whole split is because of thematic reasons, not because of plot points, so it's rather moot to begin with.


FSN is already on its own AT LEAST three different timelines with the routes, that's the whole point why HA can follow "every route and no route at once" and why it has to be so convoluted to even fit with FSN. The fact that FZ is "the backstory to FSN but slightly different enough to be an alternate timeline" similarly doesn't matter at all, and we already know CF follows from FSN, but again, what route does it follow from? Your argument is flawed because it was split like this from the very start, and on top of what others have said about it just being a tool to repurpose a setting (which, by the way, does not equate to poor planning or writing, but rather just acts as an incentive for other writers to use the existing material in an original story, just like in [name your favorite extensive fictional universe]), the only thing the Tsuki-Fate split does is make a more distinct separation between the themes of the stories contained therein. You said it yourself, Tsukihime was never related to or affected FSN so why is it suddenly a big deal that they can't be together, just because Nasu now said so explicitly?

The split from FSN wouldn't have to matter for future material in that same universe. Pretty much at thing point the use of Shirou or Rin is off limits since nasu does not want to say what route was the correct cannical one not to mention that the outcome of the 5th holy grail war doesn't affect Waver or makes it impossible for FSF to happen. Even with the role of Rin in Case Files it still wouldn't have to create a problem. It's known that in all routes she still goes to the clock tower and all they have to do is make it unclear which route she's from.

I always thought that HA was the 4th route because of the nature of the HGW ending with no winner. I also haven't finished that VN but the parts I did do, it seemed that each loop was in itself its own AU that gets reset at the end.

You blame multiple authors as the reason for so many AUs but many other fandoms have multiple authors and don't have many AUs, like star wars which has one only because Disney wanted to reset the EU.
I can't think of how FZ contradicts anything from FSN, and in the case of tsukihime if the two stories won't affect each other there is no point to make an AU. Maybe for you an AU in this situation doesn't bother you, but I'd rather have the lore be consistent than just make an AU every single time you write a new story. Don't get me wrong I like new and interesting AU, especially when they are well written. But if you do make one at least have a reason.

[AAM1232]

The split from FSN wouldn't have to matter for future material in that same universe. Pretty much at thing point the use of Shirou or Rin is off limits since nasu does not want to say what route was the correct cannical one not to mention that the outcome of the 5th holy grail war doesn't affect Waver or makes it impossible for FSF to happen. Even with the role of Rin in Case Files it still wouldn't have to create a problem. It's known that in all routes she still goes to the clock tower and all they have to do is make it unclear which route she's from.

I always thought that HA was the 4th route because of the nature of the HGW ending with no winner. I also haven't finished that VN but the parts I did do, it seemed that each loop was in itself its own AU that gets reset at the end.

You blame multiple authors as the reason for so many AUs but many other fandoms have multiple authors and don't have many AUs, like star wars which has one only because Disney wanted to reset the EU.
I can't think of how FZ contradicts anything from FSN, and in the case of tsukihime if the two stories won't affect each other there is no point to make an AU. Maybe for you an AU in this situation doesn't bother you, but I'd rather have the lore be consistent than just make an AU every single time you write a new story. Don't get me wrong I like new and interesting AU, especially when they are well written. But if you do make one at least have a reason.

The problem with SW was the complete mess of the universe due to too much material at times overlapping or overriding each other to the point that barely anyone could understand it all, which Disney resetted to make things easier. Fate is not even close to that.

FZ deals with Seiba and her experiences differently in a manner that differs from what FSN suggests.

Is Nasu's ideas on what themes he wants to explore in separate 'AUs' not reason enough? This sounds like you just want to complain and ignore anything relevant that people say.

[TomPen94]

It doesn't matter now what happens. I will never give up the fight

At this point we just gotta accept it and move on. I do think the "everything is its own AU" approach feels a bit forced, but it's undeniable it allows for far more creative freedom on each work individually.
The mechanics are still mostly similar though. Magic seems to operate pretty much the same. As far as I've seen all of the lore about Magic and the Magic Association fits regardless of which work.
The only major difference I see is that for DAA's to exist, HS's cannot exist. I've yet to fully explore the reason why that is specifically, and I'll get there eventually, but even that is not a hard rule, just a bit of a guideline.

If someone decides to write the story of drinking pals Emiya Shirou and Tohno Shiki as they hit the bar and share a table, complaining about their female friends, then they'll do it.

What matters is that Tsukihime's future looks bright. Just enjoy it maaaaaaaaaaaaan​.

[SteelBeowulf]

FSF has proven that so long that a premise and setting is interesting and fun enough, inconsistencies could be retroactively justified no matter the cost, because the "cost" in the end are just words in expositions.

[madarra]

Nasu has always bent backward for the sake of the creators *cough* excalibur image *cough* so why care, anything goes.

[neveron]

The only major difference I see is that for DAA's to exist, HS's cannot exist. I've yet to fully explore the reason why that is specifically, and I'll get there eventually, but even that is not a hard rule, just a bit of a guideline.

Well, there's two reasons.
Watsonian: DAAs oppose human history while HSs affirm it. If the heroes of the past can be called upon, there are no strong monsters.
Doylist: Dead Apostles are a Tsukihime thing while Heroic Spirits are a Fate thing. If you want to keep the two brands distinct, you don't want to mix the two defining traits much.

(Note that Fate/Strange Fake runs on its own brand of "look how weird and wild this is!")

If someone decides to write the story of drinking pals Emiya Shirou and Tohno Shiki as they hit the bar and share a table, complaining about their female friends, then they'll do it.

Let's be honest, that's probably going to be relegated to some kind of Carnival Phantasm skit. The bar is Ahnenerbe, and the scene ends with said female friends turning out to have been behind them for an unfortunate amount of time.

[migliole]

This is a personal theory of mine, take it with a grain of salt.

Most of critiques people did to those aspects of AUs and timelines were because of the lack of TsukihimeR updates. And I do not mean that people never believed there were inconsistencies, but rather they never cared that much. It is just that they didn't have much to waste their attention energy on, so they usually decide to spend it on shittalking whatever they find.
I think what gives most of those people the energy to actually care about inconsistencies was because they were unhappy.
I never cared about retcons and how Nasu is a lazyass playing games all day or even FGO until I started to be really mad about no remake updates. And although I never actually rationalized that, I can recognize that unconsciously I was like that.

I believe most of that spontaneous movement about how Nasu is a hack will slow down to the point of being unnoticeable. Not that people will change opinions, as you can't change facts, but they will stop caring because well, we will have more things to focus our attention on.

[Crown]

This is a personal theory of mine, take it with a grain of salt.

Most of critiques people did to those aspects of AUs and timelines were because of the lack of TsukihimeR updates. And I do not mean that people never believed there were inconsistencies, but rather they never cared that much. It is just that they didn't have much to waste their attention energy on, so they usually decide to spend it on shittalking whatever they find.
I think what gives most of those people the energy to actually care about inconsistencies was because they were unhappy.
I never cared about retcons and how Nasu is a lazyass playing games all day or even FGO until I started to be really mad about no remake updates. And although I never actually rationalized that, I can recognize that unconsciously I was like that.

I believe most of that spontaneous movement about how Nasu is a hack will slow down to the point of being unnoticeable. Not that people will change opinions, as you can't change facts, but they will stop caring because well, we will have more things to focus our attention on.

I can kind of see where you're getting at.


I remember the Nasu is a hack already being a thing since, easily, the early 10's. Also I think it wasn't the lack of updates of the remake but resentment in general, stemmed from the outraging Fate milking that we underwent through the late 00's and most of the 10's that made impossible for anything new non-fate related to be released.

I'd say that animosity was split between two halves. The former whom have been waiting for the remake since '08 and were tired of being ignored in spite of being one of the main groups of the fanbase, and the latter expecting anything but Fate, something "new". The second group had their thirst somewhat quenched with Mahoyo -right now I can only think of Tsuki no Sango as the "most original" work released during that period, maybe Nasu reusing the same ideas contributes to people awarding him the hack title-. As for the first group, well it just took them twelve years. Of course a lot has been bottling up and is well justified.

Having said that, the Fate milking is still there, it's just that it's turned exclusively into FGO milking or rather, shilling.

[TomPen94]

This is a personal theory of mine, take it with a grain of salt.

Most of critiques people did to those aspects of AUs and timelines were because of the lack of TsukihimeR updates. And I do not mean that people never believed there were inconsistencies, but rather they never cared that much. It is just that they didn't have much to waste their attention energy on, so they usually decide to spend it on shittalking whatever they find.
I think what gives most of those people the energy to actually care about inconsistencies was because they were unhappy.
I never cared about retcons and how Nasu is a lazyass playing games all day or even FGO until I started to be really mad about no remake updates. And although I never actually rationalized that, I can recognize that unconsciously I was like that.

I believe most of that spontaneous movement about how Nasu is a hack will slow down to the point of being unnoticeable. Not that people will change opinions, as you can't change facts, but they will stop caring because well, we will have more things to focus our attention on.

I never subscribed to the thought that Nasu is a hack, and I don't really see how that ties into the AU/timeline discussion. For that case, specifically, I geniunely thought the universe was always supposed to be shared between all the works unless explicitly stated otherwise in the text (Like EXTRA with the 1970's divergence, or Apocrypha with the 3rd HGW divergence). And I think a bit of the charm I percieved back when I had this belief, is kinda gone.

However I did go through something similar to your experience in general, regarding my general enthusiasm for TM stuff. I didn't start hating FGO off the bat, I thought it was a neat addition at first. My stance against gachas wasn't really cemented back then and after I adopted it it didn't really change my opinion on the game for a while. And honestly I think part of the vitriol I still hold and will probably keep holding onto comes from the lack of Remake updates, while seeing these "lesser" parts (IMO) of the franchise getting all the attention in the world, like the phase where every Fate product was getting an anime adaption, and the constant FGO updates. The only one that escaped the cynicism was the HF adaptation which is something I was waiting for for years at that point.

I'm obviously much more cheerful now, with the remake coming out this year, the Mahoyo translation looking like it'll actually finish, and the prospect of an eventual Tsuki anime reigniting my passion for this franchise. And this time I'm going all-in and catching up on numerous entries I didn't get into last time. Cuz at the end of the day I love this stuff. Well... most of it anyways.

[Bureno]

Here, have a working gba Tsukihime rom, works on all emulators. Now if only someone put the pc translation on it for the lols
******************file/fdEw1bhS#xLr465...lS52dfwx3ymorc