What political ideologies would be common among mages?

[Azwer]

Mages tend to be separated from normal society but they still have internal politics at the Clock Tower and things like that. From what we know about mages, I think we can separate them into three types:
- High rankers (people like Olga Marie and Kirschtaria)
- Upstarts (people like Flat and Svin)
- Harmfuls (people like Zouken)

What political ideologies do you think would be most common in each category?
For example what would Olga Marie think about capitalism?

[Dreamerless]

There's described as the Conservative/Nobility faction, the Progressive ones, and Lord El-Melloi II who stands somewhere in between.

Most of mage society probably gives no shits about capitalism. They're rich af.

[tsugumi]

You probably genuinely don't want to know.

[Five_X]

Have you heard the good word of eu-genics?

[Dullahan]

What would you think about "capitalism" if you knew

(i) that God, in a manner of speaking, is undeniably real,

(ii) that there are parts of your existence which are more important than your personality and will persist regardless of whether you individually live or die,

(iii) that the history of the world is not what it's widely believed to be,

(iv) that either you yourself are something more than human, or the overwhelming majority of "humanity" are to be considered subhuman, and

(v) that "world-history" is tending in a direction which is inimical to you?

You'd be in a completely different coordinate space. The issues are scarcely recognisable.

[Five_X]

What would you think about "capitalism" if you knew

(i) that God, in a manner of speaking, is undeniably real,

(ii) that there are parts of your existence which are more important than your personality and will persist regardless of whether you individually live or die,

(iii) that the history of the world is not what it's widely believed to be,

(iv) that either you yourself are something more than human, or the overwhelming majority of "humanity" are to be considered subhuman, and

(v) that "world-history" is tending in a direction which is inimical to you?

You'd be in a completely different coordinate space. The issues are scarcely recognisable.

This explains a lot about Russian history ca. 1878-1991 actually.

[Ideofago]

What would you think about "capitalism" if you knew

(i) that God, in a manner of speaking, is undeniably real,

(ii) that there are parts of your existence which are more important than your personality and will persist regardless of whether you individually live or die,

(iii) that the history of the world is not what it's widely believed to be,

(iv) that either you yourself are something more than human, or the overwhelming majority of "humanity" are to be considered subhuman, and

(v) that "world-history" is tending in a direction which is inimical to you?

You'd be in a completely different coordinate space. The issues are scarcely recognisable.

Isn't this literally the church during the enlightenment

[Dullahan]

Well, no. I am being somewhat abstract with these but (iii) (iv) and (v) at least would need to be interpreted in a totally different sense to make that analogy work

[Ideofago]

(iii) and (v) far more than (iv), at least

[UnlimitedBladeWorks]

I would argue that II doesn't really apply to the church either?

[TomPen94]

What political ideologies do you think would be most common in each category?
For example what would Olga Marie think about capitalism?

"I don't know and I don't care"

[Takashi]

Conservative for those that only thinks magecraft should be done by families with lots of histories.
Centrist for those that do not care about qualifications of noble and modern ones. As long as it works and they don't hinder.
Centre left for those that thinks future is modern mages.

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They are all capitalist.

[tsugumi]

Conservative for those that only thinks magecraft should be done by families with lots of histories.
Centrist for those that do not care about qualifications of noble and modern ones. As long as it works and they don't hinder.
Centre left for those that thinks future is modern mages.

Out of curiosity: are you saying this as an analogy, or do you actually think magi can be mapped onto those political labels?

[Ratman]

Fairly sure that magi by and large would be fond of feudalism. Except maybe for the 'upstarts', but that's just because they don't see the whole picture yet.
One way to phrase the big joke with the magi is that they're representatives of humanity who aren't really in tune with the rest of it ('one who doesn't understand humanity cannot be expected to save it'), which ironically makes them represent humanity in the broadest strokes pretty well - humanity is stumbling blindly and doesn't really 'get' itself. Individualism is icky to them except when it's about the ego of themselves and their kin. Hence they'd weigh towards dehumanizing ways of thought.

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When it comes to different ways the little people can be herded I don't think they'd really have a preference, but they'd definitely tell you that democracy is stupid. The future will suffer no compromise.

[Five_X]

I doubt magi would have much patience for or interest in feudalism. Being a landowner is a lot of banal supervision and would take away from their fundamental interest in research. Even worse, even if they were absentee landlords (e.g. Roman farmers in the Catonian ideal) they'd have to relinquish some control to a subservient overseer, which I doubt they could accept. Magi are on the whole not paternalistic, and feudal social/labour relations requires some kind of ideology of paternalism, whether it be ethnic supremacy over a slave class or a Judeo-Christian patriarchal mythology.

[warellis]

I doubt magi would have much patience for or interest in feudalism. Being a landowner is a lot of banal supervision and would take away from their fundamental interest in research. Even worse, even if they were absentee landlords (e.g. Roman farmers in the Catonian ideal) they'd have to relinquish some control to a subservient overseer, which I doubt they could accept. Magi are on the whole not paternalistic, and feudal social/labour relations requires some kind of ideology of paternalism, whether it be ethnic supremacy over a slave class or a Judeo-Christian patriarchal mythology.

I mean, being a landowner was still essentially the idle rich and the only means of being considered a noble for ages.

The whole point of magi is that they want to be shut-ins who do research 24/7, 365 days a year and the closest means to such an ideal was to be a nobleman, a landlord, as a means of income for resources.

Yeah, we know apothecaries and pharmaceries had a lot of overlap and any magi were that as well, but I get the feeling that was for magi who still had to work for a living essentially. So thus not that platonic ideal.

Eh who knows. Maybe magi were generally just squatters who didn't need income to survive.

[Five_X]

You underestimate how much time and attention it took to actually be a landowner and make money in an agrarian economy. The worst part of it all for magi, perhaps, is that they would be expected to pay taxes to a state or owe military service to a higher lord. Feudalheads could justify it with a notion of paternalism ("we have to put these peasants to work, God demands man till the soil for his bread and idle hands are the devil's playthings") but magi don't have such a relationship with the lesser folk around them.

This all of course requires Nasu to have any notion of political economy and economic history, which he doesn't.

[warellis]

You underestimate how much time and attention it took to actually be a landowner and make money in an agrarian economy. The worst part of it all for magi, perhaps, is that they would be expected to pay taxes to a state or owe military service to a higher lord. Feudalheads could justify it with a notion of paternalism ("we have to put these peasants to work, God demands man till the soil for his bread and idle hands are the devil's playthings") but magi don't have such a relationship with the lesser folk around them.

This all of course requires Nasu to have any notion of political economy and economic history, which he doesn't.

Maybe they were absentee landlords like say English landlords with Irish holdings were, for example.

Or maybe magi back then had to be a mix of warrior and magic scientist to survive back in the feudal eras.

[Five_X]

Where did absentee landowners typically absent themselves to?

[warellis]

Where did absentee landowners typically absent themselves to?

Generally by living in the city I recall.