Tsukihime Remake Thread - NOT THE SPOILER THREAD

[SpoonyViking]

I’d rather a Nasu write a digital gamebook like the Sorcery! remakes than another VN tbh

Oh, I'd love that! I was actually quite disappointed when I realised F/SN actually wasn't a CYOA book.

You've hit the nail on the head there. Good gameplay and the rich character driven narratives of RPGs are pretty much what I think would save VNs.
You just have to be more creative in the gameplay part. Look at Catherine, it's basically a VN, with a puzzle game skin. There are ways to bring the deep stories of VNs into different mediums, you just have to think about how to add gameplay into the mix.

Agreed! I really liked the original Melty Blood's mix of a VN and a fighting game, for instance (though I imagine the regular fighting game crowd didn't).

[Altima of the Gates]

I mean you say that, but it seems to me that RPG's themselves aren't being saved by those, since they're struggling in the market to compete with Braindead Twitch Gameplay Shooters with MC's that have less personality then Light Novel protagonists.

Games as a service has gotten people used to a recurring, MMO like feedback loop, that is the main issue.
I wouldn't put it in the crazy doomtalk of "single player games are dead!" but, that crack injected into your veins produces a certain mindeset.
Its stroking the basic synapse firing joy of numbers going up, which is what gacha games partly get into introducing RPG elements coupled with gambling, coupled with tits.
So, what do you do to combat that? Creativity is the only way unless you want to just fold and say that you'll only do gacha. Think about how much cash a console driven RPG not unlike FGO would make. Sure, you'll never outpace the casino like input gacha has, but I rpgs are very much profitable, otherwise they wouldn't try to incorporate those elements into gacha.

[warellis]

I mean you say that, but it seems to me that RPG's themselves aren't being saved by those, since they're struggling in the market to compete with Braindead Twitch Gameplay Shooters with MC's that have less personality then Light Novel protagonists.

I thought lots of people were clamoring again for RPGs, even if many of them now are sort of craptastic in story and writing?

Haven't many of the newer RPGs from companies made up from old hands at Interplay or Obsidian or whoever done pretty well in sales?

Even Bioware, before it sank to the nadir of Mass Effect Andromeda, was still doing RPGs people really liked.

[Mcjon01]

Games as a service has gotten people used to a recurring, MMO like feedback loop, that is the main issue.
I wouldn't put it in the crazy doomtalk of "single player games are dead!" but, that crack injected into your veins produces a certain mindeset.
Its stroking the basic synapse firing joy of numbers going up, which is what gacha games partly get into introducing RPG elements coupled with gambling, coupled with tits.
So, what do you do to combat that? Creativity is the only way unless you want to just fold and say that you'll only do gacha. Think about how much cash a console driven RPG not unlike FGO would make. Sure, you'll never outpace the casino like input gacha has, but I rpgs are very much profitable, otherwise they wouldn't try to incorporate those elements into gacha.

You’re right, Type Moon should just sell drugs
Straight up psychedelics would probably hew closer to the true “Tsukihime” experience than the Tsukihime remake anyway

[migliole]

Regarding all the talk about game market, thing is that the authors lost the doujin spirit and tried to go on a company logic (and in TM case the blame is on Takeuchi). The costs of doing art will only go up if
1 - You want to earn money that you don't actually need to survive;
2 - You want to make things with someone else that doesn't necessarily share the artistic spirit.
This creates a scenario where you will need to invest more because of employers, marketing, etc and all of that comes with the wounderful tax paying, which is usually high for small to mid companies (the big ones use tax evasion techniques).
Of course, not being a company makes the quality of work lower, but frankly, I don't think a VN really needs wonderful engines. Just grab something that you can understand and use your literature and graphics expertise to make it worth.

I feel that if you make two VNs, even if targeted at the doujin market, it already makes you in the same realm as a professional, just might not have the same tools as one to make it as good.

You flatter me.

How far are you in making them? And how far are they in terms of completion?

The written part of the story is more or less done as I made a change on the third route and I think I will have to rewrite some things but overall its done. The second VN still has some gaps to fill.

The two other things that are left to do are the soundtrack and graphics (sprites, CGs, etc). The soundtrack is already being composed by me as I do everything. The graphical part is the thing, I do have them on paper, but I want a proper way to make them digital, so I am currently searching for a good drawing tablet thats fits my technique.

[Lily Emilio]

You've hit the nail on the head there. Good gameplay and the rich character driven narratives of RPGs are pretty much what I think would save VNs.
You just have to be more creative in the gameplay part. Look at Catherine, it's basically a VN, with a puzzle game skin. There are ways to bring the deep stories of VNs into different mediums, you just have to think about how to add gameplay into the mix.

This is not new tbh. Himegari Dungeon Meister won a silver moe game award when it came out for its turn-base combat system that is quite similar to that of Fire Emblem series with large character customization options. Then its successor Kamidori Alchemy Meister won first place the next year for both gameplay and story, beating various other games in the market. Since then Eushully has been releasing quality ero VN/RPGs that sold well over years, topping Alicesoft and the likes, and these are 18+ VNs which means the market is limited. Their games are some of the few ero RPGs that you can remove the sex and still get a good JRPG to play.

Despite this, Eushully already tried out the gacha market due to how fast and easy you can make money there and how it would market their IPs faster to wider audiences. Not to mention a more stable income from people who will roll gacha anytime a new waifu is released. That's why they remade Himegari into a game you can play on web browser or phone easily, without the critically acclaimed combat system that is now iconic to their games. This game is on DMM R18 so all you need is an account and you can start playing and rolling for waifus, regardless of where you're from. This is one of the main reasons why Alicesoft mentioned the notion of going gacha to save VNs, and they are actually doing it now to save themselves.

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I don't think a VN really needs wonderful engines. Just grab something that you can understand and use your literature and graphics expertise to make it worth.

I mean, this is exactly how Yuzusoft did their games. Extremely simple system like all VNs, but very high quality artwork. The literature can range from good to bad, but their VNs managed to outsell a lot of other more complex games with better stories and characters. It is what it is.

[SteelBeowulf]

>VN
>gameplay element
>RPG
>recurring game mechanics
>CYAO

.............

so Fate Extra but better?

[weeblord]

Imo gameplay would just subtract from chuuni VNs like FSN and Dies Irae with cool battle writing.

and I cant even imagine what kinda gameplay youd sneak into some random nakige or utsuge, and in the latters case would probably just end up detracting from the tone its tryna convey.

[Mcjon01]

The most important aspect of any VN is that any given route is short enough not to give me blue balls, sorry if that’s too much information but it’s true

[R.Lock]

and I cant even imagine what kinda gameplay youd sneak into some random nakige or utsuge, and in the latters case would probably just end up detracting from the tone its tryna convey.

Pleasure meter.

[fumei]

The "riff" is that since apparently VNs don't have a public anymore, those which focus on telling a story could work as traditional novels, while others could be slotted into other genres - CYOA, dating sim, whatever's appropriate.

Alright, fair. Thought this was some sort of "VNs aren't real literature" thing, my bad.

[SpoonyViking]

It's alright. :-)

[warellis]

What is the difference between a "digital gamebook" and a "VN"?

[migliole]

What is the difference between a "digital gamebook" and a "VN"?

Maybe the genre, VNs are always novels/fiction.

[Altima of the Gates]

Imo gameplay would just subtract from chuuni VNs like FSN and Dies Irae with cool battle writing.

and I cant even imagine what kinda gameplay youd sneak into some random nakige or utsuge, and in the latters case would probably just end up detracting from the tone its tryna convey.

That's because you played them purely as stories, the narrative wasn't built to accommodate whatever gameplay element might be used for it.
But Fate in general is good RPG fodder primarily because of the Master/Servant theme and almost DnD like feats/skills.

[Kotonoha]

You could argue that FSN's choice system is already "gameplay" considering how many ways you can fuck up and get a bad end.

[eddyak]

If the pictures moved, we could stick a "Telltale" on the front and sell it as an actual game.

[migliole]

If the pictures moved, we could stick a "Telltale" on the front and sell it as an actual game.

Or any other game actually, it is not like you controll anything on Sanics and similar. You would need to make it more action scene heavy though.

[Mcjon01]

What is the difference between a "digital gamebook" and a "VN"?

Gamebooks tend to have RPG systems like dice rolls, stats, hp/mp, and item collection on top of the raw cyoa element

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Plus the system inkle made is very pretty

[eddyak]

Also if you make a wrong turn, rocks fall and everyone dies, and there goes your entire several hour long run!