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Thread: Want and Need

  1. #41
    死徒(下級)Lesser Dead Apostle
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    I'll say this.

    Caren is ABSOLUTE win. xD and due to Rin's frequent charisma breaks.

  2. #42
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Awesome.

    I love the scenes with Kotomine, and the ones with Archer. Must have more Kiritsugu.

    I wonder if you're going to have Archer remember more as time goes on. It would be a wasted opportunity if he just missed his chance to interact with people like Ilya if he never recognizes any of them.

    When he gets summoned in the 5th War, he does remember them. He just pretends that he doesn't know. Aside from being a little scrambled right in the beginning.

    I liked Tokiomi in this. He could actually play an interesting role for once. And the possibility that Kotomine might get some fulfillment or at least stay on the righteous path is one that never gets explored.

    And you never said what that expression that passed his face during that conversation with Caren was. Teased.
    Last edited by mAc Chaos; September 27th, 2012 at 11:46 PM.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  3. #43
    Discuss legoguydude's Avatar
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    Why did Archer lose his memory? I thought that was just a line of bullshit he fed Rin.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by legoguydude View Post
    Why did Archer lose his memory? I thought that was just a line of bullshit he fed Rin.
    It's mostly due to a corrupted Grail and being summoned before his time, specifically before the Fuyuki Fire. I mean, Archer's life and the path that led him to his life as a Counter Guardian really started after the fire. He does remember certain things, but specific details escape him for the moment. It's just the effect of being summoned earlier in time during a War he had never experienced as opposed to going through the same thing again in a time he was familiar with.

  5. #45
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    Maybe Archer should at least hang out/play with Ilya a little bit and with Irisviel asking how Archer can get along with Ilya so well and he should respond, "She reminds me of a sister I had lost a long time ago." as a cryptical answer.

  6. #46
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by legoguydude View Post
    Why did Archer lose his memory? I thought that was just a line of bullshit he fed Rin.
    He was genuinely confused at first, but he remembered most of his past (the important people anyway). He just didn't know he was in THAT war, until he saw Rin, and then spent the first night deducing things.
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  7. #47
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Malgos's Avatar
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    I don't really like how Tokiomi wasn't chosen as a Master, I understand that it's supposed to be the theme of your story but I really doubt someone, who feels like a "filler", to me, due to the lack of Masters, like Uyruu would be chosen over one of the main three families. I imagine that it's one of the few rules that the Grail has to follow, that if someone from the founding families wants to participate they shall. Just like the knight classes always have to be present and the rest can be adjusted.
    Last edited by Malgos; September 28th, 2012 at 10:15 AM.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malgos View Post
    I don't really like how Tokiomi wasn't chosen as a Master, I understand that it's supposed to be the theme of your story but I really doubt someone, who feels like a "filler", to me, due to the lack of Masters, like Uyruu would be chosen over one of the main three families. I imagine that it's one of the few rules that the Grail has to follow, that if someone from the founding families wants to participate they shall. Just like the knight classes always have to be present and the rest can be adjusted.
    And compared to Waver-kun and Manaka? xD

    Ok, so let's compile what we have so far.
    Kiritsugu = Archer
    Kirei = Assassin
    Waver = Lancer
    Manaka = Saber
    Kayneth? = not sure?
    Uryu = Caster
    Kariya = ?
    Last edited by blitz1/2; September 28th, 2012 at 10:41 AM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by blitz1/2 View Post
    And compared to Waver-kun and Manaka? xD

    Ok, so let's compile what we have so far.
    Kiritsugu = Archer
    Kirei = Assassin
    Waver = Lancer
    Manaka = Saber
    Kayneth? = not sure?
    Uryu = Caster
    Kariya = ?
    Kayneth has Rider. Yeah, Broskander. Remember, Waver didn't take the artifact.

    Kariya then is left with Berserker.

  10. #50
    Mastervision, also called stat’o’vision.
    All masters can see the stat sheets of any Servant they look at. Initially this is very general information such as physical characteristics (what they look like) but gradually increases as the Servant is observed. Seeing them fight will reveal their physical paramaters, seeing them employ a skill will reveal that skill as well as its rank.
    Learning a Servants true name will instantly reveal everything on their stat sheet.

    Known counters are Lancelot’s ‘For Someone’s Glory’ and the ‘Information Eurasia’ skill, which obscure or erase information respectively.

    An interesting line up. Caster especially should be fascinating, given he won’t be distracted.

    Archer getting treated like Arturia I do not like. The King of Knights and the Magus Killer were incapable of working together, Archer will have no issue helping his dad play sniper.

    Corrupt or not the Grail is obliged to deal the three families in unless the deliberately opt out. Although not having Gil is defiantly a plus.

  11. #51
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Malgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Magos Winter View Post
    Kayneth has Rider. Yeah, Broskander. Remember, Waver didn't take the artifact.

    Kariya then is left with Berserker.
    Was about to say the same, not to mention that in the first chapter Kariya even the line that summons Berserker.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
    “Thine eyes, clouded by chaos…! Trapped in a cage of madness… I shall hold thy chains…!

    A good man who shouldn’t have fought in any kind of war, but saw it as his only way to give back a child’s happiness…

    Quote Originally Posted by Angelform View Post
    Archer getting treated like Arturia I do not like. The King of Knights and the Magus Killer were incapable of working together, Archer will have no issue helping his dad play sniper.
    Actually I don't think he's getting treated like Arturia. It's just that they weren't expecting him, just like they didn't expect King Arthur to be female, and then immediately reported that to Acht. At least that's how I understood it. Although it is troubling that in the end it almost played out the same as with Arturia.
    Last edited by Malgos; September 28th, 2012 at 11:30 AM.

  12. #52
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    Yeah cutting Tokiomi for Manaka is kind of a bleh choice.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Malgos View Post
    I don't really like how Tokiomi wasn't chosen as a Master, I understand that it's supposed to be the theme of your story but I really doubt someone, who feels like a "filler", to me, due to the lack of Masters, like Uyruu would be chosen over one of the main three families. I imagine that it's one of the few rules that the Grail has to follow, that if someone from the founding families wants to participate they shall. Just like the knight classes always have to be present and the rest can be adjusted.
    I don't think the Grail sees "Each of the founding families must be a Master" as a rule, much less as a guideline that may or may not be followed. Plus, the spot that originally was supposed to go to Tokiomi was hijacked by one of the Masters. Or look at it this way:

    It's magic.

  14. #54
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    Ah, the classic "It's Magic bitch, I don't got to explain shit." I try to avoid that whenever possible.

  15. #55
    What else can I say? I have a reason for not making Tokiomi a Master and I can't reveal too much without spoiling the story. It's too early. And I never found where it explicitly stated one of the founding families had to be a Master. I don't think Tohsaka participated in the third War either.

  16. #56
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    They did. They snatched the Edifelt crest in that war I think.

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Arch-Magos Winter View Post
    They did. They snatched the Edifelt crest in that war I think.
    If they snatched the crest, then that's similiar to what Tokiomi plans to do in this War. I just thought the concept would be interesting. I appreciate the criticism and feedback though.

  18. #58
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Malgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
    I don't think the Grail sees "Each of the founding families must be a Master" as a rule, much less as a guideline that may or may not be followed. Plus, the spot that originally was supposed to go to Tokiomi was hijacked by one of the Masters. Or look at it this way:

    It's magic.
    They all want and made the Grail for themselves. I doubt they wouldn't ensure that they take part in their own ritual. Not to mention that the Grail first picks the Master's from the families and then looks for other Candidates.

    Not to mention that Tokiomi got his command seals at least 3 years before the war.

    It's stated in Fate Zero, probably in Fate/Stay Night as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fate Zero
    Einsbern, Makiri, Tōsaka. Called the 3 families of the beginning, what they designed was the reproduction of the 'Holy Grail', the subject of many traditions. Expecting that the summoning of the Grail would realize any wish, the three families of magi offered their secret art to finally manifest the 'omnipotent container'.

    ... However, that Grail could only grant the wish of one person. As soon as that truth was known, the bonds of cooperation were washed in blood by conflicts.

    That is the beginning of the 'War of the Holy Grail', 'Heaven's Feel'.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fate Zero
    "The thing about the Heaven's Feel is that it is a battle that uses Servants as familiars. So to keep on going forward, the elementary magecraft for the summoning itself becomes required. ...Essentially, the seven persons who are selected as Masters of the Servants have to be magi. It must be exceptional for someone like you, who doesn't make a living out of magecraft, to be recognized by the Grail at such an early stage."

    "Does the Grail have preferred people to select?"

    Tokiomi nods to the yet-unconvinced Kirei.

    "I mentioned the '3 families of the beginning' — for the granting will favor the magi related to the Makiri, who have now changed their name to Matō, the Einsbern, or the Tōsaka houses. In other words..."

    Tokiomi lifted his right hand to show the threefold pattern.

    "As the current head of the Tōsaka family, I will participate in the next battle."
    Last edited by Malgos; September 28th, 2012 at 11:53 AM.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiiam View Post
    If they snatched the crest, then that's similiar to what Tokiomi plans to do in this War. I just thought the concept would be interesting. I appreciate the criticism and feedback though.
    I am not sure, but can somebody clarify? Didn't they say that the Grail will select a participant from the three head families FIRST in the first/second episode and then the rest as follows? Which is followed with Tokiomi making the comment of saying that the rest who fill the spots are usually just small-fry?

  20. #60
    夜魔 Nightmare linkhyrule5's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure it's stated that the three founding families are guaranteed slots, or why even bother make the Grail. If you want to change that... Well, I really don't like "It's magic" as an explanation. Benefit of the doubt for now, but I'm expecting a much better reason later.

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