Standardized Servant Rankings (Create-a-Servant)(fanfic only, not Nasu's true system)

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Seika, marry me. Or at least bear many fictional children with me.

[The Curious Fan]

(all the more so since Kanshō and Bakuya, C-rank NPs with simple anti-magic properties, were deflecting Caster's spells whilst in the heart of her territory).

Kansho and Bakuya are specifically stated to have anti-magic properties?

90%+. People find the Nasuverse confusing and are also likely to want to find a quick reference for skill descriptions. Both lead to the finding this and carelessly using it without checking context.

To be fair, some bits of the Nasuverse are just odd. But yeah, still a problem.

[Arashi_Leonhart]

Kansho and Bakuya are specifically stated to have anti-magic properties?

When both equipped, magic resistance and physical resistance improve.

.

[Seika]

Kansho and Bakuya are specifically stated to have anti-magic properties?

Physical and magical resistance are increased whilst you wield both.

- - - Updated - - -

Ach, Arashi!

(Also, attention to detail and willingness to plough through things you dislike are probably not the first things you should be looking for in a wife. )

[Arashi_Leonhart]

No, but I have built my entire life toward a career that requires criticism I don't want but desperately need. If I can have that in a wife, maybe it isn't too late to turn around into a career that will actually offer me income.

[Allon Marton]

This should be the description of E. *reads Human vs Servant below* That is, except if these descriptions are for human stats, which is weird (and shouldn't have existed) because this rank system should've been made only for Servants.





If you made two sets of ranks like these then it wouldn't be a standardized rank, because there's no description for the second set. The fact that the descriptions did not describe the second set (you know, the ones actually for Servants) also means that this is not a Servant system.

Also, the first set shouldn't have existed anyway, because there's no such thing as human rank system (yet) in Nasuverse, at least as far as I know.

Let me tell you the truth, the reason I put these all with human descriptions was for 3 reasons, (1) So people can quickly find and compare these to their servant in life. (2) Because it does not matter, this is purely for stating up a sheet, I am not creating an RP where the servant is in this little box and can not go above such and such power-level lest they break the game. (3) (and this is the important reason) Because I do not know, nor care to know the limits of a servant, I LIKE not knowing if an author is going to take an A rank in strength to mean that they can punch a building into rubble, or to mean that they can some how break the concepts that should otherwise make an object immovable and unbreakable with pure strength, I think it is cool. So I put up just enough on that one that you could put a fair rank on the parameter, and come up with your own ideas of what exactly that means later. Yes I know that the same could be said of the rest of the skills, but for me, I needed an idea of what these skills did, because I know, I am going to end up having to write all of this out at least 4 times per servant, and I would really like a starting point if it isn't obvious as to what the servant can do with that skill.

As for the EX thing, I will add it in to the description, in bold and underline, but I kinda think some of the EX rank skills are cool, so I will keep them there regardless.

Here's a starting list:

General


Specific

Thank you! Finally something I can work with. Now as I am sure you have guessed a fair few of you criticisms have to do with the fact that I just don't get some of these skills, or the ideas behind them, and as such have had to make it up either partially or entirely based on what I thought it might mean, for example Divine, I could NOT find out what the hell it actually did, so I made the assumption that it was just how close one was to being a Divine Spirit and granting related bonuses along the way. This is why I am constantly saying that I am willing to change these skills to something better, because each rank is just an interpretation of the skills, and as such will always be subject to change.

I think I may just leave Divinity like that because most servants being made aren't really from nasu and so it should force them to use their own ideas on it, but if you have a better idea, or know what the skill is actually supposed to do, I am listening. Also Pioneer of the Stars...it should not exist, and if it did, Francis Drake should not have it, if you read that skill you will notice I did not even have a single clue what benefits a servant gained from having it. Also my own interpretation of it is more that you have to change the world/humanity to get it, and the reason all heroes don't get the skill is because most of them aren't changing the world so much as keeping it from changing (into rubble).

This is the most helpful reply so far, so I will try and look into it and find some way of fixing some of those, but if you would be willing, I would greatly appreciate your own interpretations of what some of those skills may look like. For example what do you think each rank in Numeral of a Saint may look like? (Yes I just grabbed a random unfinished skill in hopes someone will do it for me.)
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Also would everyone be willing to separate whether there complaints and criticisms are for Part 1 or Part 2? I feel this would be easier to do one part at a time. When I first made this it was only part 1 and I just added part 2 because I could, so really all I care about is making sure part one is done, and the best it can be. Part 2 can never be perfect and is more of an add-on because the first part went well.
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On an unrelated note, can anybody tell me what 30 turns actually means? It was in the Independent Action skill and I did not understand it.
-Actually a little bored right now, I may get back here tomorrow, or maybe later today.

[qwertyfatcat]

Wow, I did not know K and B had MR bonuses. That would totally give Archer some incentive to carry them on his body from now on. Oh wait...

Personally, I felt that very specific skills didn't have a list of different ranks. If someone has a skill called "eternal arms mastership", and only have it at E rank, it would be kind of redundant since they don't really have eternal arms mastership. Hell, how can you have different ranks of Original One? You'rer either getting help from Gaia like a little bitch, or you're not. I feel that if we are going to be making newer servant ideas, we could introduce new personal skills, ranking based on their effectiveness and such. This is IMO of course.

I agree that Nasus' scalings are silly at times, but consider than he only made that system just for Fate Stay Night. That VN only had a total of like 10 different servants? You can do alot with just 10 servants, but not to categorize thousands to millions of them.

[Allon Marton]

Wow, I did not know K and B had MR bonuses. That would totally give Archer some incentive to carry them on his body from now on. Oh wait...

Personally, I felt that very specific skills didn't have a list of different ranks. If someone has a skill called "eternal arms mastership", and only have it at E rank, it would be kind of redundant since they don't really have eternal arms mastership. Hell, how can you have different ranks of Original One? You'rer either getting help from Gaia like a little bitch, or you're not. I feel that if we are going to be making newer servant ideas, we could introduce new personal skills, ranking based on their effectiveness and such. This is IMO of course.

I agree that Nasus' scalings are silly at times, but consider than he only made that system just for Fate Stay Night. That VN only had a total of like 10 different servants? You can do alot with just 10 servants, but not to categorize thousands to millions of them.

I had planned, after finishing all the skills listed, to allow people to make up their own skills and I would put them up here as well, (with a few exceptions) but as people seem to have an inherent problem with this here, it is unlikely I will bother putting that on this site. If your interested, and if I can get around to it, I will send you a link to it.

Of course I also have the attention span of a humming bird so there is really no telling when that may be. It took me less than a week to finish most of this so far, but it took over a month for me to bother with the class skills.

Also I agree with you that some of these should only be a skill without a set of ranks in them, much like Assassin's skill/NP but since it was on the little wiki thing I decided to give it a try anyway, mostly just because I could.

I should also mention that I didn't make this alone (actually for effort I can only really claim to have a full hand in Part 1) nearly all the skills are based at least partially if not whole off interpretation of others who were helping me make them. It was why I put it here, to try and get more interpretations to fill up the rest of part 2.

[TheRoar]

Alright, so...

This is going to be mainly a critique of Allon's revision, but I'm also gonna flesh out some problems that I find in canon Nasuverse mechanics. Hold on tight, 'cuz nothing is sacred in the name of progress.







First of all, I find that ranking by alphabet is inferior to ranking by numerals. Besides the fact that letters are naturally limited to no more than 26, a problem rises if you theoretically find something that is not quite an EX-rank effect, but also significantly more powerful than an A-ranking, since there is no letter "higher" than A.

The obvious solution is to use numbers, which are not so limited.

My advice is, use a numeral scale in which 1 to 5 is strictly modern human level, and 6 and above is superhuman level; 6 is E, 7 is D, 8 is C, 9 is B, 10 is A, 11 is stronger than A. In addition, the following two unique rankings:

• An EX rank, which includes all effects with a power level that is difficult to pin down. For example, Inuyasha's sword Tessaiga would hold this rank, since it can absorb and adapt for use the powers of whatever it defeats, potentially becoming infinitely greater.
• An S rank, which includes all effects that always trump non-S-ranked effects without contest, making exact rankings irrelevent for them. Avalon's ultimate defense and Ea's ultimate attack are obviously the prime examples for this, but here are also the Mystic Eyes of Death Perception and wishes granted by the Holy Grail system.

The "+" modifiers can and should remain, since they are useful modifiers for signifying specialties. For example, Excalibur would be 10++ rank; reguler attacks with it will have a rank of 10, but using its sword beam has a ranking of 12.



I kind of have a problem with Class Skills, and I'm not sure how to best solve it. It goes like this:

Independent Action and Mad Enhancement are obviously Skills that the Heroic Spirit forming the Servant did not originally have in life. But on the other hand, Item Construction and Territory Creation are Skills that any half-decent Caster was probably capable of in life anyway; maybe some non-Casters such as EMIYA were, too.

And what about Magic Resistance? Was this something that was added to them as Servants, or is this something all heroic warriors (and only warriors) of old had in life? If the Grail system added this, how come only Servants displayed this ability so far?

• Chinese Martial Arts is cute, but what does it do?? Take a look at Shichika's Kyotouryuu Skill, it should give you some ideas.

• Eye of the Mind (False) and Instinct are very similar in what they do. My redundancy sense is hurting me.

Just combine them into a single Instinct Skill.

• Once the Eye of the Mind (False) Skill has been folded into Instinct, you can change Eye of the Mind (True) into a simple "Eye of the Mind".

Now, a little side-rant:

Spoiler:

In my opinion, the "as long as the possibility of victory is not zero" thing is a useless oversimplification at best, and batshit crazy at worst. Chance is an illusion created by our inability to comprehend the present or see the future.

When you roll a die, there is always 100% chance that it will stop on any one specific facet, and 0% chance that it will stop on any other, depending on the physical conditions of the roll (the angle of the roll, the force invested, the wind resistance, the landing surface, gravity, etc.), and if you know these conditions ahead of time you can predict or even induce the result - in the same way that a practiced knife thrower is able to assure that the knife will always strike its target blade-first.

You cannot, therefore, change a 1% chance of victory into a greater chance, since it was never a 1%.

That being said, in what way does Eye of the Mind "greatly improves the chances of winning"? Doesn't say.

If you ask me, delete this "possibility of victory" nonsense and replace it with the capability to counter the effects of the "Knowledge of Respect and Harmony" Skill (whose name I'm also gonna suggest you replace), and other effects that might hide attacks, such as Invisible Air.

• High-Speed Divine Words? I say, fold it into the Magecraft Skill which I suggest you will change to "Thaumaturgy".

• I find the name of Knowledge of Respect and Harmony to be inelegent, and suggest you change it. For example, the Fate/Nuovo Guerra roleplay game favors the name "Heart of Harmony". I evolved it further to "Center of Harmony". Feel free to change it to whatever you'd like, or not at all; it's not -such- a big deal.

• The Magecraft Skill should be changed to Thaumaturgy. The rankings of this Skill should not be defined ahead of time, but designed on a case-by-case basis depending on which thaumaturgical style (Magecraft, Alchemy, Holy Sacraments, Houjutsu, Runes, High-Speed Divine Words, etc.) is favored by the character. For an example of how it's done, take a look at the Yellow Emperor's Thaumaturgy Skill.

• Pioneer of the Stars is junk, and always was junk. Delete that shit.

• Rune Magic should be folded into the new Thaumaturgy Skill.

• Subversive Activities is fucking stupid. Every square inch of it. Drop it like a bad habit.

• Surgical Procedure should not be a Servant Skill, for the same reason EMIYA doesn't have Culinary Mastery; it's just too mundane.

If you want supernatural healing like what Kotomine does, you should go use the new Thaumaturgy Skill.

[I3uster]

Surgical Procedure is a canon skill, Jackie has it IIRC.

[TheRoar]

Surgical Procedure is a canon skill, Jackie has it IIRC.

Indeed she does.

Nevertheless, I don't think it should be a Skill.

[Lycodrake]

Indeed she does.
Nevertheless, I don't think it should be a Skill.

And...? Do you have an actual explained, well-thought-out reason for this, or is it just lolopinions?
Because it is indeed canon. You might as well get over it and move on.

[SeiKeo]

The entire point of this system is that canon can be dumb.

[Lycodrake]

The entire point of this system is that canon can be dumb.

Well yes, we've already established that; I was asking on this particular example, though.

[SeiKeo]

Given the premise that canon can be dumb and that he is overriding it when he sees, though, why do think he needs a detailed reason?

[Spinach]

Surgical Procedure should not be a Servant Skill, for the same reason EMIYA doesn't have Culinary Mastery; it's just too mundane.

You're right. Surgical procedure skills are so common, all of my friends can do them. That's like having "Breathing" as a skill! So mundane!

[I3uster]

Saber needs an E-Rank.
...euthanasia is technically a medical procedure rite

[Five_X]

The entire point of this system is that canon can be dumb.

But you don't fix dumb things by making them dumber - or remaking them entirely. :|

[SeiKeo]

Take it up with him, I'm just talking to Lyco within the premise.

[Lycodrake]

I would think people would have detailed reasons for these sorts of things, but I've been proven wrong on this before. XP