England did spend centuries actively suppressing Welsh language and culture, and I'd consider "special measures" too vague a term for me to judge if it's an overreaction or not.
England did spend centuries actively suppressing Welsh language and culture, and I'd consider "special measures" too vague a term for me to judge if it's an overreaction or not.
It's like getting an F in an exam, it's the most extreme category after an inspection. The long and short of it is that an Executive Board will be formed and have the power to remove the Principal if necessary should they deem the desired changes to not be happening.Originally Posted by SpoonyViking
Diving deeper, I'm seeing a lot of back and forth on the subject from people living in the general area. Some interesting debates being brought up, especially how gatekeep-y the idea of "Welshness" is when people whose families have lived in the country since time immemorial are saying they've been accused of a No True Scotsman fallacy because they don't speak Welsh.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
(Check out my Super Special Awesome Servant Compendium here)
I completely understand the need to preserve a culture and a language, especially one that has been historically repressed, but also I think this is a bit much IMO. Not speaking Welsh shouldn't mean you're "not really Welsh", and as far as I can tell this literally something people can always do because of Wales' circumstances. Surely there's a better way to celebrate Welshness that doesn't involve forcing people to speak a language they might have difficulties with? I live in a country with a large level of immigration and cultural diversity, and quite a lot of it was forced in the past, but people found ways to preserve their culture and coexist with the one they were made to engage with to simply lead normal lives.
You can't force people to care about a culture, even if it should be "their" culture. Kids all the more so.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
The best way to make kids care about a culture is to present it as the coolest thing in the world. I think I actually remember classes where we talked about my country's folklore and myths a lot better than I do the ones talking about our actual history, which I've never found particularly interesting. But then again, I was reading books on Egyptian mythology when I was like 6 so I think I'm just a weirdo.
Oh, well, seems pretty normal, then, to be honest.
...To be honest [2], I wonder if there would even be a discussion about the topic if the kids had been underperforming in, say, Maths.
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If you immediately associate "teaching" with "forcing", I'm sorry about the crappy teachers you've had.
...Or maybe the crappy student you were, to be fair to them.
Well yeah, because math is actually useful.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
(Check out my Super Special Awesome Servant Compendium here)
Spoiler:
This is kinda fun.
Spoiler:
To the Abyss with thee. :-PWell yeah, because math is actually useful.
Oh come the hell on, you're just being disingenuous here. Kids have no choice or say in what the curriculum they're being taught is or how their teachers teach it, meaning whatever form those "special measures" take they have no choice but to grin and bear it. That's the textbook definition of being forced to attend something (because I very much doubt there will be any meaningful learning actually happening).
I will ignore the personal jab as a sign of you getting curmudgeony in your old age.
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"Interesting insight in the mind of a longtime fan" is certainly one way of putting it.Spoiler:
This is kinda fun.
shit BL says
Once and always and nevermore.
All joking aside, I say this as someone whose grandparents are part of the 82.2% of Welsh citizens who cannot speak Welsh...it's not a high priority compared to, as you mentioned the low standards of mathematics that children in the UK suffer from.
"Here's a bangin lil' tune about takin' on The Man!"
(Check out my Super Special Awesome Servant Compendium here)
And yet, somehow that's only a problem with the teaching of Welsh language and culture, and not Maths, or Physics, or Chemistry, or...
Well, you get the point.
(Also, I reiterate: "teaching" is only "forcing" if you have crappy teachers *or* are a crappy student. That's not a personal jab, but a statement of fact by someone who actually *is* a teacher.)
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Well, why? By what criteria is Mathematics automatically more valuable than language and culture?
Growing up, I went to farsi school alongside regular school. Nobody asked me if I wanted it or if it was cool, it was just expected that I’d learn my family’s heritage. Now that I’m older and can appreciate it I’m thankful I did. Not that I disliked it during.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
But did you resent it at the time?
Binged All Of Gundam In 4 Years, 1 Week and All I Got Was This Stupid Mask
FF XIV: Walked to the End
Started Legend of the Galactic Heroes (14/07/23), pray for me.
No. But as a kid you don’t really know the value of these things, so I don’t think that’s something to focus on. Some kids resent taking math too.
He never sleeps. He never dies.
Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.
Teaching generally runs into the problem of making students actually care about the subject rather than ticking a box to get a grade and moving on. Math and language are a great comparison imo, because there are so many varied ways that people attempt to teach them to get across the fundamentals that it's hard to judge what the "right" way to teach it is for best results - ultimately, ending up with different styles for different learners. Having studied three separate languages (one with more success than the others...), it's especially tough considering how qualitative language learning is.
Looking at it historically though, most language revivals have failed without some strong, ongoing force giving impetus to learn a language, usually cultural suppression. Take Ireland: there are fewer Irish speakers today than there were a century ago, around the time of independence. So far removed from the political oppression that originally drove nationalism and linguistic/cultural revival movements, it's hard to get young people to understand the enduring value of it. It's even harder in a social system that increasingly values money-making skills over artistic and creative pursuits.
<NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?
[11:20:46 AM] GlowStiks: lucina is supes attractive
[12:40] Lace: lucina is amazing
[12:40] Neir: lucina is pretty much flawless
Clearly the Welsh should just write a world-famous book series where wizards use Welsh for spells.
I tried it with a few posts:Spoiler:
This is kinda fun.
GUT
Dullahan's Epilogue Notes
Actual Epilogue
It seems like it ignores spoilers in pages (probably because it does not know how to open them). I transferred the epilogue text to another document and tried to have it read it, but that caused its brain to break. I guess I can't blame it.
By the criteria of people who say that math is "the language of the stars that can help express countless possibilities, as well as understand the building blocks of the universe".
In other words people who majored in it and desperately grasp at any straw that helps justify the 5+ years of their sad, pitiful existence theystaring at bunch of numbers.wastedspent
tbf it does help with doing taxes so there's that
I don't think math is objectively more valuable than language and culture, but I would wager that its perception as more valuable is that our society has come to increasingly value skills that have wide-ranging application in various careers (including many prestigious ones), and therefore considered highly desirable. It's something that's difficult to do at a high level in an efficient and fast way, but is simultaneously required for much of what allows our modern society function. Therefore, if you're good at maths, you will be wanted by employers.
I mean this sincerely not as a "I think math is better because so and so" so much as I think that mathematics has more value in our capitalistic system, and therefore is held in higher regard by people. My parents were always pushing me to use my skill with English to get a job instead of treating it as I did, which was a way to interact with more people and learn more about the world. Even I am guilty of this; if drawing doesn't work out for me, I will probably pursue compsci, which requires a lot of math, simply because it's a profitable career in my country and one that I will be able to easily adjust to.
In reality, I actually have a lot of respect for people who pursue things like language, or history, when everything else about the society around them is pushing them to "learn something 'useful'". I find myself somewhat weak for only pursuing something I feel will give me easy money, instead of what I really want, which is to make and share my own stories.
Last edited by Formless Creature; February 10th, 2023 at 04:04 AM.
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