Fire Emblem

[Sesto]

Bud I already countered your dumb argument. It's alright, it's fine to admit you're bad.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Actually, what Casual players should really admit is that they don't care enough to go Classic because that's a level of investment too far.

[Deathhappens]

Bud I already countered your dumb argument. It's alright, it's fine to admit you're bad.

Admit that considering one method of cheating superior to another which accomplishes the same result is intellectually dishonest, then we'll talk about how difficult it is to grind a win in any given FE game.

[Bloble]

Calling WT "iconic" or central to the series' identity is ridiculous. It may only appear that way because you likely started with Awakening or the GBA games, like most western fans. The closest game to iconic in the series is FE3, which lacks it entirely. It's about as "iconic" as an avatar character or reclassing, i.e. not at all. In truth WT is just one of many mechanics in the FE arsenal. In some games it is a major mechanic but in at least half it is either a minor one or absent entirely.

Hell, if you wanted to talk about "iconic" then weapon durability would've been a better mechanic to pick, because it has always been significant.

And same result? Playing casual and sacrificing units each map compared to playing classic and having to actually keep them all alive may arrive in the same result, but they're two entirely different kinds of games. Even if you use bookmarks and save states (which have been in FE since 4, btw) you still have to actually play the game differently. And grinding shouldn't even factor into this discussion. It's there as an added way to make the game easier for players that think the default is too hard. It's basically just a difficulty slider, one I'm not too fond of as it takes FE closer to JRPG than its tactics origins.

[weeblord]

Admit that considering one method of cheating superior to another which accomplishes the same result is intellectually dishonest, then we'll talk about how difficult it is to grind a win in any given FE game.

this is what you are arguing: a shooter with 1 health bar is not harder than a shooter with 10 health bars, because youre just gonna pick retry when you die.

Even with resets, the extra difficulty of classic comes from trying to carefully play in a way where that 1 hp bar doesnt hit zero, while the game with 10 bars allows you to run guns blazing through enemy fire.

[Deathhappens]

Calling WT "iconic" or central to the series' identity is ridiculous. It may only appear that way because you likely started with Awakening or the GBA games, like most western fans. The closest game to iconic in the series is FE3, which lacks it entirely. It's about as "iconic" as an avatar character or reclassing, i.e. not at all. In truth WT is just one of many mechanics in the FE arsenal. In some games it is a major mechanic but in at least half it is either a minor one or absent entirely.

Hell, if you wanted to talk about "iconic" then weapon durability would've been a better mechanic to pick, because it has always been significant.

And same result? Playing casual and sacrificing units each map compared to playing classic and having to actually keep them all alive may arrive in the same result, but they're two entirely different kinds of games. Even if you use bookmarks and save states (which have been in FE since 4, btw) you still have to actually play the game differently. And grinding shouldn't even factor into this discussion. It's there as an added way to make the game easier for players that think the default is too hard. It's basically just a difficulty slider, one I'm not too fond of as it takes FE closer to JRPG than its tactics origins.

The GBA games ARE the face of the franchise as far as the West is concerned, yes. I could have said "the Weapons Triangle is iconic to the franchise as the entire freaking world knows it" but that's just being obtuse for the sake of it. It's hard for a game to be "iconic" when less than half of the fanbase has played it. But this is the Persona 3 argument all over again, and I'm not argumentative enough to reopen two old debates at the same time.

this is what you are arguing: a shooter with 1 health bar is not harder than a shooter with 10 health bars, because youre just gonna pick retry when you die.

Even with resets, the extra difficulty of classic comes from trying to carefully play in a way where that 1 hp bar doesnt hit zero, while the game with 10 bars allows you to run guns blazing through enemy fire.

False example. It's more along the lines of playing a shooter with godmode on and running the game with "unlock everything" cheats up. Sure, in the latter case you might actually die a couple times, but in the end both are cheating the system to make their lives easier. Own up to your Ironmans or go home.

[asterism42]

Actually, what Casual players should really admit is that they don't care enough to go Classic because that's a level of investment too far.

I don't care enough to go classic, and I happily admit it

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The GBA games ARE the face of the franchise as far as the West is concerned, yes. I could have said "the Weapons Triangle is iconic to the franchise as the entire freaking world knows it" but that's just being obtuse for the sake of it. It's hard for a game to be "iconic" when less than half of the fanbase has played it. But this is the Persona 3 argument all over again, and I'm not argumentative enough to reopen two old debates at the same time.

FWIW I'd say the permadeath feature is far more iconic than the weapon triangle is.

- - - Updated - - -

OK, here's why I play on Casual. I do try and reset/turnwheel if one of my units dies because even if they're fine next battle it still feels like a loss. They left the battlefield because of my carelessness. Casual is simply a safety net in case there's no way to avoid a loss, or if I've run out of undo buttons, or if I'm near the end of the map and can't be arsed to reset.

[Aozaki-desu]

there is no way any of these outcomes happen with a frequency which justifies playing on casual
not with 10+ uses of turnwheel

[Deathhappens]

there is no way any of these outcomes happen with a frequency which justifies playing on casual
not with 10+ uses of turnwheel

We weren't talking just about 3H, though.

[asterism42]

I usually use divine pulses to preserve secondary objectives on a map

I ain't missing out on Felix's shield because some dumbass villager wandered into the boss's aggro zone

[Bloble]

There's no shame in playing on casual, only in trying to say playing on casual is the same as playing on classic and resetting. This difficulty thing isn't some binary between hardcore lunatic ironman LTC and easy phoenix mode with grinding.

[Deathhappens]

It's not a matter of difficulty at all. Casual is just officially approved cheating, just like the Turnwheel. Cheaters calling cheaters cheaters because their cheat takes more "skill" (which as demonstrated is literally irrelevant when you can grind2win regardless) is just hypocrisy.

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It's like playing Skyrim with a metric fuckton of mods but looking down on someone for using console commands to disable Encumbrance. The only reason it's perpetuated in the FE fandom is that for some reason people consider them difficult.

[asterism42]

Some of the older FE games are genuinely difficult (Thracia). I'd say that since about Sacred Stones they've all been fairly easy.

[LegalLoliLover]

Some of the older FE games are genuinely difficult (Thracia). I'd say that since about Sacred Stones they've all been fairly easy.

Sacred Stones' post-game, though.

[Aozaki-desu]

It's not a matter of difficulty at all. Casual is just officially approved cheating, just like the Turnwheel. Cheaters calling cheaters cheaters because their cheat takes more "skill" (which as demonstrated is literally irrelevant when you can grind2win regardless) is just hypocrisy.

turnwheel is a game mechanic that is a separate from a difficulty slider

[Ratman]

The reason why 3H is easier to break to crap than FF8 certainly doesn't have anything to do with the turnwheel.

I'm skeptical of how higher difficulties could possibly offer a fun and well-paced challenge unless they outright change the values on some skills and actions, but you could probably make the game fresh again by randomizing people's skill aptitudes and growths, because it will instantly make everybody in the game far worse as they are no longer holed into what the devs meant them to be. It's still going to be road to wyvern though

[Bloble]

I guess everything that isn't ironman is cheating now. What kinda headspace does it even take to arrive at that kind of opinion?

3H is gonna have a hard time balancing past Stride+Warp for sure, even on higher difficulties. I'm hoping they work a miracle with Lunatic but not holding my breath. This is really due to a build up of many problems:

1. Too much character customization. Flexible class change options and having most of your army recruited from the start means you can no longer balance around certain combinations of units and classes. They only let you have one Dancer, so why not do the same for Wyverns or other strong classes?
2. Having to make most of the first half beatable by any of the houses.
3. Barely if at all limiting weapons and items. Sure brave weapons and certain killer or specialized weapons are limited in the store at first, but you can still buy them freely for any class. Ditto for keys.
4. Making utility spells (Warp) recharge per map, thus giving no reason to limit their use.
5. Stat inflation. Genealogy and the GBA games avoided this by having rigid caps on level and stats that never go above 30. Earlier games had stat caps of 20 that for the most part wouldn't be reached. Modern FEs have ridiculous caps and 3H has a level cap of 99 with stat caps in the high 40s. This means it's very easy to have units be either too strong or completely useless relative to each other depending on level and how the game's battle formulas work. It should not be this easy to get a nigh invincible unit that can just be tossed into any situation and kill everything on retaliation on EP. To its credit 3H did alleviate the EP focus by having battalions, but it's not a perfect fix.

[asterism42]

Dimitri's Strength cap is 87

[Aozaki-desu]

Enemy placements, skillsets and enemy gambits could easily be used to adjust the difficulty for higher mode
3H has plenty of room to work with, hard mode has barely any skills or gambits on enemies
maybe slight stat adjustment

[Wandering Swordwoman]

Wasn't two FE 3DS games have this one strong unit that can solo the entire early map?