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Thread: Fire Emblem

  1. #5461
    Greatness, at any cost mAc Chaos's Avatar
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    what did i just read
    He never sleeps. He never dies.

    Battle doesn't need a purpose; the battle is its own purpose. You don't ask why a plague spreads or a field burns. Don't ask why I fight.

  2. #5462
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    On topic, Raphael is very viable in maddening endgame. War Master awarding Quick Riposte is absolutely busted, and his talents let him go there really easily. He's also outright one of the best Quick Riposte users because of his naturally massive HP and generally good defenses.

    He easily and quickly masters WM to get QR and can easily be tutored in flying to prep him to get Wyvern Lord since he'll get his fist + axe skills up just by being used. Smash hits really hard, and hilariously, gauntlets are definitely not a meme. Brave weapons that are naturally low weight essentially solve the problem that many of the best WM candidates have: bad speed ruining their early game before they reach QR to erase speed from the game.

    Ofc, Raphael isn't the BEST at this. A few other male characters do it better due to better unique passives, better growths, crests, or better bases, but since stats and growths aren't very important in maddening, but rather skills and talents, Raphael can be made relevant and will stay relevant if you actually build him right. This isn't even some niche hyperthonk build, WM into WL is optimal for every male in the game, since late game maddening you can never reach high enough speed to double everything via stats alone.


  3. #5463
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    If anything is the meme weapon in 3H it's swords anyway. Worst combat arts, worst stat spreads, and worst ranged options. This is what happens when you jack up accuracy to the point where sword Hit doesn't matter, and throw 2RN on top of it. But at least there's the rapier and cursed ashiya sword to keep things interesting.

  4. #5464
    アルテミット・ソット Ultimate Thot Five_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SirGauoftheSquareTable View Post
    Also, Gauntlets are actually pretty good in the right hands
    Ok, you can have this one.
    <NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?

    [11:20:46 AM] GlowStiks: lucina is supes attractive
    [12:40] Lace: lucina is amazing
    [12:40] Neir: lucina is pretty much flawless

  5. #5465
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Bows aren't actually that strong in 3H
    Words of someone who is yet to give Shamir their virginity.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    . Lances similarly suck but make up for it by being in classes that pump DEX up the gills, which is entirely wasted outside of Maddening because almost nobody is that hard to hit.
    Lances have best weapon arts AND the best weapons by far. They only lose to bows because they make you work to reach Hunter's Volley levels of stupidity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bloble View Post
    If anything is the meme weapon in 3H it's swords anyway. Worst combat arts, worst stat spreads, and worst ranged options. This is what happens when you jack up accuracy to the point where sword Hit doesn't matter, and throw 2RN on top of it. But at least there's the rapier and cursed ashiya sword to keep things interesting.
    I find rapiers to be kinda cheat weapons because you can only get 2 through normal play (i think you can buy one normally and get another via paralogue), but you can shop early for 3 of those things if you DLC shop (which i usually do, since they cost quite a bit of renown early on). If we count rapiers then swords own lances and axes, if we dont then yeah they suck.
    Ashiya is a meme weapon though. Thunderbrand is like second best weapon in the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    On topic, Raphael is very viable in maddening endgame. War Master awarding Quick Riposte is absolutely busted, and his talents let him go there really easily. He's also outright one of the best Quick Riposte users because of his naturally massive HP and generally good defenses.

    He easily and quickly masters WM to get QR and can easily be tutored in flying to prep him to get Wyvern Lord since he'll get his fist + axe skills up just by being used. Smash hits really hard, and hilariously, gauntlets are definitely not a meme. Brave weapons that are naturally low weight essentially solve the problem that many of the best WM candidates have: bad speed ruining their early game before they reach QR to erase speed from the game.

    Ofc, Raphael isn't the BEST at this. A few other male characters do it better due to better unique passives, better growths, crests, or better bases, but since stats and growths aren't very important in maddening, but rather skills and talents, Raphael can be made relevant and will stay relevant if you actually build him right. This isn't even some niche hyperthonk build, WM into WL is optimal for every male in the game, since late game maddening you can never reach high enough speed to double everything via stats alone.
    No offense, but this is unreasonable-amount-of-investment wall of cope. On Lunatic, you would have to tolerate Raphs garbage early game, feed him EXP to get him to 30 early, tutor him to hit both War Master and Wyvern Lord, then max out War Master, then spec him into Wyvern Lord which is not even that tanky a class to rely on a enemy-phase talent on a unit who will take higher than 0 damage from the enemy.
    By the time you are done 75% of the game is cleared, Raph is not Constance who's halfway through to level 50 before timeskip hits.
    I'm not gonna deny that it would work or anything, but thats copium.

    - - - Updated - - -

    On the topic of gauntlets, they dont survive frog litmus test.
    Out of all weapon types, Byleth was the worst with gauntlets. After that run only Flayn is allowed to use them.
    Last edited by Aozaki-desu; January 17th, 2022 at 10:42 AM.

  6. #5466
    The Plesioth Hip Check Of Life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    On topic, Raphael is very viable in maddening endgame. War Master awarding Quick Riposte is absolutely busted, and his talents let him go there really easily. He's also outright one of the best Quick Riposte users because of his naturally massive HP and generally good defenses.

    He easily and quickly masters WM to get QR and can easily be tutored in flying to prep him to get Wyvern Lord since he'll get his fist + axe skills up just by being used. Smash hits really hard, and hilariously, gauntlets are definitely not a meme. Brave weapons that are naturally low weight essentially solve the problem that many of the best WM candidates have: bad speed ruining their early game before they reach QR to erase speed from the game.

    Ofc, Raphael isn't the BEST at this. A few other male characters do it better due to better unique passives, better growths, crests, or better bases, but since stats and growths aren't very important in maddening, but rather skills and talents, Raphael can be made relevant and will stay relevant if you actually build him right. This isn't even some niche hyperthonk build, WM into WL is optimal for every male in the game, since late game maddening you can never reach high enough speed to double everything via stats alone.
    Raphael is a good bruiser, but as an outright tank he sucks. He has like, negative RES growth and his DEF isn't /that/ good to compensate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    White Clouds ch.11

    Few pages back:
    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    Rhea, actually, did Nothing Wrong
    This chapter:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea, a fountain of forgiveness
    Professor, kill Edelgard at once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea, abounding in mercy
    To flee is futile, wicked girl. The Church of Seiros will raise its entire army against you until you have been captured and punished!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rhea, giving 40k Ecclesiarchs a run for their money
    That crime will never be erased, even if you burn in the eternal flames and spill all your blood into the goddess's soil!

    shit BL says

    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    ladies, he's single
    Quote Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
    Yeah, but that's because he's got more issues than National Geographic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Araya's Dry Cleaner View Post
    You can rage, but there is no waifu communism.

    You are not getting government-handout waifus.


    Once and always and nevermore.

  7. #5467
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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  8. #5468
    el bolb Bloble's Avatar
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    HP, it turns out, is in fact a tank stat

  9. #5469
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    This is literally a normal amount of useage lol. It's also the route you take any male character on maddening if you actually want consistent clears. This isn't even some theory craft or out-of-the-way character progression, it's incredibly easy.

    I'm just going to assume you've done maddening once or twice and never touched it again.


  10. #5470
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Consistent clears
    Enemy phase
    pick one

    also i did lunatic like 12 times including CF and SS no-pulse ironmans

  11. #5471
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    Then you should know how easy it is to go WM and then WL. Unless you are doing some restricted run to challenge yourself, you can master WM in a single aux battle. I am also deep into the double digit run count, I don't even like Raphael, but he is actually fine due to the sheer stupidity of quick riposte and his naturally high bulk.


  12. #5472
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    I'm not using warmasters. If i make an enemy phase unit you betcha its a trash can.

    - - - Updated - - -

    but my last few runs it was pretty much uno trashcan and the entirety of my team was player phase.

  13. #5473
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    If you are LTCing, sure, you're right. Raphael doesn't belong in an extremely optimized run. Otherwise, no, he is actually fine. A few other units outperform him in his niche (which is not tanking, tanking in maddening doesn't exist), but that is because instead of just being good they are insane.

    But if you want to spiral down the route of "only the way I like to play is right and any other way is shit and wrong" then it can just be leveled back at you. Memeruns with "bad" characters and trying to find ways to actually make them useable is the way I enjoy the game. Unfortunately some people are terrible no matter what, like Ashe, but that's the game. Not everyone has an obtuse niche that becomes useful.


  14. #5474
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    If you are LTCing, sure, you're right. Raphael doesn't belong in an extremely optimized run.
    I'm not LTCing, thats autistic and boring, however

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    (which is not tanking, tanking in maddening doesn't exist)
    this is wrong, it absolutely does exist. You do need to build for it though, which is fine since if you could make a tank on the cheap on lunatic it would not be at all difficult.
    Raph is going to die a few times if you build him like that and that does not appeal to me even if i'm not ironmanning but you do you

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    But if you want to spiral down the route of "only the way I like to play is right and any other way is shit and wrong" then it can just be leveled back at you. Memeruns with "bad" characters and trying to find ways to actually make them useable is the way I enjoy the game
    you are arguing that using Raph is okay and fine and normal and then also admit he is a shit unit that you are pouring prime levels of investment into. Which was my entire point, you can do it, its just gonna cost you so much.
    Confused Frog JPG
    Its like when i made WL Ingrid that one time and she fucking soloed BL final map (not entirely, but she was pretty much a lynchpin, she killed more than half of fucking enemies on the map by herself).
    And i thought "damn Ingrid good" and then i looked at her classsheet and skillsheet and my second thought was "no shit she is good i spent like 80% of the game leveling her"

  15. #5475
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    I've never said he's shit, you are equating "not being the best" with being bad. I'll reiterate that getting him to WM and WL is not a serious investment nor is it an obtuse progression route. He's always in a class he's decent at while going that way. Merely using a unit as they are normally used is not some magic over-investment with a deep cost. It's not some selfish memebuild that requires funneling tons of kills and every single week of tutoring to get Raphael into. Playing the game and using him will get him there.

    This isn't like when I decided to raise Lysithea to master every single class, weapon type, and max all of her stats because she is cute and I like her. THAT is investment. This is just the route Raphael goes. It's the route anyone goes if they're slow with high HP, because WL with QR is busted as hell.

    The only cost to raising Raphael this way is the opportunity cost of fielding him at all, because another unit who you like could be out there on the field instead of Raphael. There is no cope because I don't even like Raphael, I actually dislike him a fair deal, but I can easily see how his attributes can be used and made into a fairly impactful unit.

    Which is why I have only used him about 4 times, because he is ugly and I don't like slow hard hitting characters. The times I have decided to raise him, it has been simple and straightforward. Just some regular participation and setting him to train on flying and whichever other skill he's falling behind on will passively bring him up to the requirements. He is a low impact character until he gets on a wyvern, but you can put people on wyverns decently fast, and wyvern classes are stupid good, so he begins to make an impact pretty easily just smashing things and getting out until you reach 30 to get him QR.


  16. #5476
    The Plesioth Hip Check Of Life Deathhappens's Avatar
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    Lysithea deserves all that investment and more.

    As an aside, now that I've gotten to the more climactic chapters I can honestly say I don't really like Claude, which is... somewhat of a demerit in a story he's supposed to be the protagonist to.
    He's just... too cool with everything. Seeing someone you thought for sure was dead or gone, five extremely difficult and tumultuous years since the last time you met, in a meeting that was a chance in a million they'd even remember even if they were alive is definitely not the kind of thing you're supposed to casually laugh off like that.
    shit BL says

    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    It's like with centaur girls, you're fucking a horse. Sure the human part is the one that moans but your dick is in the horse, no way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by You View Post
    boytoy angst > fulfilling life of misanthropic extremist environmentalism
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafflesiac View Post
    ladies, he's single
    Quote Originally Posted by OverMaster View Post
    Yeah, but that's because he's got more issues than National Geographic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Araya's Dry Cleaner View Post
    You can rage, but there is no waifu communism.

    You are not getting government-handout waifus.


    Once and always and nevermore.

  17. #5477
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Malgos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bloble View Post
    If anything is the meme weapon in 3H it's swords anyway. Worst combat arts, worst stat spreads, and worst ranged options. This is what happens when you jack up accuracy to the point where sword Hit doesn't matter, and throw 2RN on top of it. But at least there's the rapier and cursed ashiya sword to keep things interesting.
    It's pretty funny how swords are usually not that great in quite a few Fire Emblems despite usually being the Lord's weapon of choice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinach View Post
    Then you should know how easy it is to go WM and then WL. Unless you are doing some restricted run to challenge yourself, you can master WM in a single aux battle. I am also deep into the double digit run count, I don't even like Raphael, but he is actually fine due to the sheer stupidity of quick riposte and his naturally high bulk.
    Ah, I forgot aux battles even existed probably another part of Three Houses I don't like much. As someone that lost interest in his 5th playthrough around I dunno chapter 7 or so I'm not sure I can talk much about it, but it felt like classes gained really slow experience on maddening and since you need to master them that sucked. As I said before I don't really like the grindy feel of Three Houses and it's monastery.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aozaki-desu View Post
    I'm not LTCing, thats autistic and boring, however
    Not really into that myself as well, although I aim to try and play as fast I can, even while playing a game blindly. So at least the spirit of it is kinda my thing. Also I've got to admit it was pretty interesting to see Dondon151 pull some crazy maneuvers for his LTCs, but some of it is also just having insanely good RNG.



    Seeing all this discussions kinda makes me want to try and pick it up again to actually be able to talk about it, but at the same time it kinda feels like Fates and I have little desire to go back to it, but they did add a difficulty, after I've beaten all routes, I haven't beaten before so I sorta feel compelled. Not having finished that run didn't stop me from starting a new run of Fire Emblem 6 though, so 3H will still be on hold unless this thread ignites my passion to actually buckle down on the Monastery grind again.

  18. #5478
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    If you do DLC aux battles they make every lunatic run like 20hr long and offset the exp penalty that you get
    you can also just do normal missions instead but those are much less efficient
    and by less efficient i say they are dogshit holy hell why are normal aux battles are so bad is beyond me
    and dont even start me QUESTS

  19. #5479
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    It was fun. Would not do again tho.


  20. #5480
    Fluff & Smug Aozaki-desu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deathhappens View Post
    Lysithea deserves all that investment and more.

    As an aside, now that I've gotten to the more climactic chapters I can honestly say I don't really like Claude, which is... somewhat of a demerit in a story he's supposed to be the protagonist to.
    He's just... too cool with everything. Seeing someone you thought for sure was dead or gone, five extremely difficult and tumultuous years since the last time you met, in a meeting that was a chance in a million they'd even remember even if they were alive is definitely not the kind of thing you're supposed to casually laugh off like that.
    you arent getting any drama in Golden Deer, its Linhardt of all four routes

    maybe i should tune Yuzu and get that modding going so that Sothis can murder everything
    but i'm too deep in the crusades it will take me like a month to get out
    too deep

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