Fire Emblem

[Laith]

I don't really think I can get over her moments of hypocrisy, like when she condemns Rhea et al for being 'monsters' who rule over humans, and then turns herself into a monster in Azure Moon.

She called Rhea a monster because she let Fodlan go to hell thanks to the Crest based society, the cool almost complete power she has and not doing absolutely anything to solve the issues that cropped up because of crests (like, you know, the experiments she went thru)

Rhea isn't exactly evil, even if she is a very shady, disturbing character who's sanity is always one shock away from totally unravelling, and she's not responsible for half the shit Edelgard pins on her, and moreover, Edelgard basically spends her route stomping all of Rhea's trauma buttons without knowing. Also, Edelgard has a whole hatred for the Children of the Goddess that isn't justified by any facts. Other than Rhea/Seiros, most of them just minded their own business and wanted to be left alone, and this extends to the living ones.

Rhea sure did all of what I described already and also Edelgard lets Sethet and Flayn go without issue so it's just against Rhea (and the people who follow her).

Also weird that she calls Nemesis just a bandit in Verdant Wind but does call him King Nemesis in Crimson Flower when she's alone. Probably nothing.

It would take a literal Jesus (Byleth) to hope to alter that course and save her from her circumstances. But unfortunately, other than CF there is no such route in the game. Which is a shame, i would looooove a route where you oppose El but save her in the end.

I mean thanks to everything that has happened to her, the moment Byleth opposes her she's basically never going to want Byleth to save her.

Also three houses is good because it sure loves to tell you to live with your choices.

[Aozaki-desu]

First thing she asks in Silver Snow post time-skip is whether you will go with her
let alone her final confession scene in SS and VW
honestly when i was that first time i was pretty shocked because that cutscene in partucular isnt something i expected
but it kind of fits with the way Verdant Wind plays out
but when i saw it second time i was almost sure that alternate version of it must have existed at some point but that Silver Snow received major changes to its ending at some point because they couldnt make it like they intended
that would explain its rushed completely unforeshadowed actual ending too

She wouldnt reach out to Dimitri after all whats happened but she would break and reach out to Sensei given the chance

[asterism42]

She called Rhea a monster because she let Fodlan go to hell thanks to the Crest based society, the cool almost complete power she has and not doing absolutely anything to solve the issues that cropped up because of crests (like, you know, the experiments she went thru)

Rhea has done some shady shit, but Edelgard decrying her as the SOURCE OF ALL EVIL, when she herself has allied with the Agarthans, i.e. the people actually responsible for all the horrible things that happen in Fodlan, including experimenting on her, is the epitome of hypocrisy. From what it sounds, Rhea had no idea Those Who Slither were still active, so short of her randomly deciding to invade the Adresteian Empire for no real reason, I don't see what she could have done about Edel's situation.

Also, there's a bunch of books in the library with the Church's doctrine in there that explicitly condemn the Crest system.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I will admit Rhea is responsible for upholding a poisonous status quo and blocking Fodlan from outside ideas and influences, so no matter what, she does need to step aside, but even the Crest thing can be explained by simple pragmatism, since the descendants of the 10 Elites or the Elites themselves were still alive after Tailtea, and Rhea, the Saints, and Wilhelm von Hresvelg were likely in no position to completely eradicate them or their Crests, with the exception of maybe Maurice, so they had to accommodate their former enemies. Even then, Rhea could have done more to prevent the gross excesses of the Crest caste system as Fodlan's moral authority/shadow ruler.

As for Edelgard and another way forward, the woman had the huge problem of being unable to trust anyone but herself for her goals, and essentially has huge blinders when it comes to alternate perspectives and cooperating with those who don't share her exact vision. I feel another way forward could have been charted if during her time at the Academy she could have at least TALKED to Claude (and maybe Dimitri), found out they had some common ground, and then potentially used their leverage as heirs to bloodlessly get the Church to back down and combine forces to take out the Agarthans.

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And all the nice things you can do on CF, like sparing Seteth and Flayn, sparing other students, and sparing Claude are stuff that BYLETH does, not Edelgard, implying she would have killed them all with no hesitation otherwise.

[asterism42]

Rhea doesn't try to isolate Fodlan tho, that were Day 1 release fake news. Fodlan's separation from its nearest geographical neighbours is because they constantly try to attack.

It's not even because they're trying to force it into interactions, the Almyrans at least keep doing it simply because it's part of their culture.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/...es_sensitively

[LegalLoliLover]

Rhea has done some shady shit, but Edelgard decrying her as the SOURCE OF ALL EVIL, when she herself has allied with the Agarthans, i.e. the people actually responsible for all the horrible things that happen in Fodlan, including experimenting on her, is the epitome of hypocrisy.

That's a fair point. I blame Nemesis. Though admittedly, the reason that I dislike Nemesis, apart from dismembering Sothis, is his title. As someone born in a communist dictatorship (China), I'm always suspicious of people who put "People's" or "Liberation" in their title or organization name.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Rhea doesn't try to isolate Fodlan tho, that were Day 1 release fake news. Fodlan's separation from its nearest geographical neighbours is because they constantly try to attack.

It's not even because they're trying to force it into interactions, the Almyrans at least keep doing it simply because it's part of their culture.

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https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/...es_sensitively

That is definitely a good point, but Rhea still has contributed to creating a Fodlan culture hostile to outside ideas and one which treats outsiders as beasts. Basically, she hasn't physically or politically isolated Fodlan, but intellectually, she definitely has.

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That's a fair point. I blame Nemesis. Though admittedly, the reason that I dislike Nemesis, apart from dismembering Sothis, is his title. As someone born in a communist dictatorship (China), I'm always suspicious of people who put "People's" or "Liberation" in their title or organization name.

It is rather sketchy, his title, though I think he might have liberated something since if Maurice is to be trusted, he was called as such during his life and not just by Seiros retroactively.

[Aozaki-desu]

Okay i'm more or less forced to warp skip now, because fuck fighting fairly against this many enemies
2 chapters to go

[LegalLoliLover]

Was Edelgard's character concept basically someone watching that documentary where a historian called Cao Cao a 可爱的奸雄 and then decided to run with 可爱 via the translation of "cute", rather than just the intended "likable"?

[Twi]

Most people go with Arvis.

And Edelgard's ignorance due to bad information really makes you look at her route with a wary eye, because it really does feel like a "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" kind of situation.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I was about to say the exact same thing with regards to Arvis, and just like his story, her route has the "road to hell is paved with good intentions feel", though of course, we never know if her successes dramatically blow up in her face like they do with Arvis. Probably not, but there could be some random Blaiddyd prince or princess out there ready for revenge. Or maybe some vengeful Alliance noble or former Church bishop.

Hubert is also clearly Aida, though unlike Arvis and Aida, Edelgard and Hubert are not fucking.

[Bloble]

I'm just glad there's no consensus. Having everyone agree isn't half as interesting as watching the 'Edelgard did nothing wrong' and 'Edelgard is worse than Griffith' camps go at each other.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

I am not in the camp of Edelgard is worse than Griffith. I'm in the camp that she's girl Arvis with all the attendant flaws and hypocrisies. That being said, debate is fun to an extent.

[LegalLoliLover]

I'm just glad there's no consensus. Having everyone agree isn't half as interesting as watching the 'Edelgard did nothing wrong' and 'Edelgard is worse than Griffith' camps go at each other.

I see this situation with a cooler head because I know of Brother Mengde and Nobunobu. Unfortunately, most people are only familiar with Star Wars and Lord of the Rings nonsense.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Random ask, but am I the only one who thinks in life that Riegan and Fraldarius were Nemesis' closest followers based on how they were placed in relation to him in Fodlan's New Dawn and because Riegan has 2 weapons?

[asterism42]

The sword isn't Reigan's, it's Macuil's

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

From a Doylistic perspective, yeah it might be, but from a Watsonian perspective, not quite, since like it or not, it is locked to the Crest of Riegan, has its effect boosted by the Crest, and Macuil's Crest and Riegan's share nothing in common. That, and since Macuil hates humans, there's no way in hell he'd give up his sword.

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Nevermind, I see there are other Sacred weapons associated with the 10 Elites, though not for all of them, strangely enough. Maybe they were piece offerings, and Macuil somehow didn't give his, or he did, but later killed Riegan and took it back?

[Wolf Paladin]

Speaking of Macuil I have thought about another candidate that could have worked with Macuil’s Crest

Lysithea.

It would make sense storywise because TWSID would want a powerful Crest like Macuil and they could have access to Macuil’s blood somehow. I mean these guys managed to give the Crest of flames to Edelgard so it wouldn’t be farfetched to imagine that they would want to have powerful Crests like his.

Gameplay wise the Crest of Macuil works like Gloucester so nothing change. It also ties in Lysithea’s sword talent which starts out bad because she hates the Crest but by working on it she accepts it and becomes good at it.

Also it would set an interesting situation where Lysithea confronts Macuil. Naturally Macuil is furious that someone has his Crest while Lys says that she didn’t ask for it.

Macuil then gives his sword in order to have some payback on those humans who dared take his power.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Eh. Not a fan.

[asterism42]

Better than having Gloucester, IMO, since the only reason she seems to have it is so she can use Lorenz's relic better than he can.