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Thread: Create-a-Servant

  1. #2961
    Welcome to Beast's Lair, firloz! Now on to the less pleasant part of the post:

    First things first; your Kiritsugu is ridiculously wanked. I'm sorry to say it like that but its true.

    - His stats should be all Rank E (especially his LCK) except for maybe Rank D or C AGI (and even then it should only be Rank D or C when his Time Alter is activated). Physically he's nothing special, even by magus standards (just look at Kotomine man-handle him even though Kirei was a sh*tty magus; an Enforcer like Bazett would rag-doll him like a helpless child if she ever got him in melee range).

    - Avalon isn't an actual part of his legend (he became notorious well before he got it and disappeared from the world of magi after the grail War so no one ever knew he had it) and he gave it away before he died so he wouldn't have it as a Servant.

    - His Personal Skills are either ranked way too high or he shouldn't have them at all. For example...

    - He shouldn't have Battle Continuation as his tolerance for injuries is not that much better than most magi (just look at Kayneth shrugging off a hole blown through his shoulder or Kotomine ignoring his arm being shredded). No Avalon, remember.

    - Expert of Many Specilizations is too high; no way is he at Rank B skill in all those disciplines, and I seriously doubt he has 32 skills at all (Zero Hassan had 32 specializations and he had magical multiple personality disorder to help him get those skills). At best he has high skill in espionage, assassination, sabotage, maybe swindling (when have we ever seen him swindle someone save Kayneth), and maybe tactics (IIRC the whole reason his tactics were so effective is because most magi are so traditional in how they do everything whereas he's willing to exploit modern tech; he's no tactical genius, he just thinks differently than his preferred targets).

    - This one in particular stands out so much I have to comment on it seperately, but the equivalent of Rank B in rhetoric from his EiMS? Is that a joke? Who has Kiritsugu ever actually inspired with his speeches save Irisviel (a naive homunculus who learned all she knows about the world from Kiritsugu), Maiya (who probably doesn't even care about his dream so much as she cares about serving him because he saved her) and Shirou ('nuff said)? Most people don't even know why he does what he does because he's anti-social except when he has to put up with people.

    - He definitely doesn't have Eye of the Mind True, let alone at Rank A. He beats most magi who are more powerful than him because he goes after them (not the other way around) with a plan and has two haxx tricks at his disposal. Nothing he has demonstrated would suggest EotM True.

    - Information Erasure makes no sense. He was notorious and well known as the "Magus Killer". What wasn't known was his motivation. Most magi regarded him as a heretic and disreagrded his skill as a magus because he used tech but they still acknowledged him as dangerous (Kayneth was the exception because of his arrogance) and the Magus Association would still hire his services and the Einzbern specifically hired him because of his reputation.

    - Magecraft should probably be Rank C+ (with the plus modifier kicking in when he deals with bypassing or dismantling Bounded Fields), but this one is debatable and merely my opinion. Just though it was worth mentioning.

    - He shouldn't have Projectiles at Rank A. His skill with firearms, while exceptional by human standards, is nowhere near superhuman. Someone with Rank A Projectiles (Firearms) should be a "Vash the Stampede"-level shooter. At best he's Rank E due to the sheer variety of firearms he is skilled with, not because he is an exceptionally skilled shooter.

    - Subversive Activities is way too high. Kiritsugu is good but he couldn't dismantle 70% of a freaking army before they moved forward. His type of Subversive Actvities is more geared towards sabotaging individuals or small groups (he's never even fought an army as far as we are aware; at best he has assasinated military leaders but that's not quite the same thing).

    - Independent Action and Riding are not Class Skills for the Assassin Class.

    - Independent Action, Presence Concealment, Magic Resistance and Riding are not Class Skills for the Caster Class.

    - Presence Concealment and Riding are not Class Skills for the Archer Class.

    - Why would he even have Riding? He's not exceptional at piloting or driving as far as we are aware.

    - His Thompson Contender/Origin Bullets are Rank A++? Wut? A gun that would do nothing to Servants has no business being Rank A++ (that's Excalibur-level). The regular high-powered bullets of the gun would mean jack to most Servants, and his Origin Bullets aren't much better (they don't do that much damage if you aren't actively using your Magic Circuits and most Servants aren't magi).

    - His crest should probably be at least Rank C (this is the one occasion where you undersold him). Time Alter is pretty potent magecraft even if Kiritsugu himself can't use it to its fullest extent (though in fact, as a Servant he can probably use it far more easily now).

    Whew. Glad that's over with. Now on to your 2nd profile:

    - Still too wanked. His stats are ridiculously high, even not taking Mad Enhancement into account. Comething a little more realistic would be [STR D, END C, AGI D, MGC E, LCK E, NP D]. He was incredibly strong compared to a normal human but that means nothing to Servants. His END is more impressive considering his legend, this is the one stat where I think you could argue for your original choice of Rank B. I only lowered it to C because he's relatively "new" and more recent legends are considered weaker in the Nasuverse. He never demonstrated exceptional AGI beyond his speed at swinging a hammer, so Rank D is fine for him. MGC E- makes no sense unless something is limiting him ("-" and "+" are modifiers that mean a boost or a decrease under certain circumstances).

    - Battle Conintuation EX would mean someone who can shrug off having their head removed or being cut into pieces. John Henry ain't that good. At best he gets Battle Continuation Rank A (and that's honestly being generous).

    - Monstrous Strength makes no sense. He never transformed or anything in his legend which is what MS is all about.

    - Magic Resistance is not a Class Skill for Berserkers. Only the Knight Classes (Saber, Lancer, Archer) and Riders get it.

    - Mad Enhancement EX? Wut? I think, going by your description, you mean Rank A like Fate/Extra Berserker-Lu Bu. If you want double Rank up to all Parameters it'd be Rank A+.

    - Regarding his NP. A hammer that never breaks is kind of pointless as an NP. No Servants weapon will ever break, not even the non-NP ones like Rider-Medua's chain and spikes, unless the Servant willingly breaks it him/herself, or said weapon is struck by another NP wielded by a Servant who has a high Rank in Prana Burst.

    - Rather than saying the hammer's concept is "unable to die unarmed" it'd be clearer to say the concept is "will never die unarmed", making it so the hammer's special property is that John Henry can't be disarmed no matter how the enemy attacks unless they cut off the limb holding the hammer. It's easier to understand that way, though it should only be Rank D.

    Looking at both profiles, I think you played Fate/Extra and are going by their Ranking system where EX is just another Rank beyond Rank A. In the regular Nasuverse Rank EX means "something that is impossible to calculate". It's not just another tier of power, but rather something that goes beyond measurement.

    One last thing to keep in mind that is that relatively new "legends" tend to lose out to older legends in terms of power. In the Nasuverse the older something is, the more mystery/power it has.

    All-in-all, it's not quite as bad as it could have been for a first attempt. I'd recommend looking at other people's profiles to get a better idea of how the Ranking system works. Seika said she was going to post some guide to making profiles, but I can't recall if it ever happened. I liked the idea of John Henry as a Servant!
    Last edited by G-Man; October 20th, 2012 at 12:19 PM.

  2. #2962
    Gläubig müssen die nicht sein, daran glauben müssen sie I3uster's Avatar
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    Dude, if he does a Servant profile of a TM character I doubt that you have to take it this seriously.

    Kiri would have never become a HS anyway, CG most likely, and those don't even get NPs (UBW is in the NP screen but Archer frequently gets called a Servant without NP)
    [04:55] Lianru: i3uster is actuallly quite cute

  3. #2963
    改竄者 Falsifier Petrikow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    Dude, if he does a Servant profile of a TM character I doubt that you have to take it this seriously
    No dude, that's when it's the most srs.

    You should know, considering the first 10+ pages of this thread.

  4. #2964
    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Considering the first post amirite.
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


  5. #2965
    Gläubig müssen die nicht sein, daran glauben müssen sie I3uster's Avatar
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    Nobody can read the first post, it just involves instructions.
    [04:55] Lianru: i3uster is actuallly quite cute

  6. #2966
    Imperial Princess Satehi's Avatar
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    Everyone still remembers, I3uster.

  7. #2967
    Preformance Pertension SeiKeo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    Nobody can read the first post, it just involves instructions.
    :3
    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    That time they checked out that hot guy they were just admiring his watch, yeah?


  8. #2968
    夜属 Nightkin
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    G-man, you are correct in me coming right out of fate/extra.

    On avalon, I am under the impression that his becoming a heroic spirit is closely tied to Emiya Shirou's knowledge of the man, and that he would only become a heroic spirit something like 20-30 years (if not WAAAY longer) after the events of the grail war. Shirou would surely be telling the tales of how the man used Avalon to save Shirou's life.

    The A++ in phantasm was under the assumption that A was equal to 10 times human-capability, (rather than where it actually is at 50), it should actually be E++ (it is an 'effective' C rank against magi IMHO)

    For the class skills, I was under the impression that any servant could have any of the class skills to varying degrees, but someone who didn't already have a skill from the class they are summoned as will get it from the grail. Riding E is from the fact that he is presumably capable of 'riding' any modern machine, and likely any normal animal. In the anime he is able to steer the boat well enough to put him in a position to take down a plane with an arm-mounted rocket launcher without being noticed by those on the shore. There isn't a rank below E, otherwise he would have that.

    Battle continuation is under the assumption he has avalon, which I believe he should have and you disagree.

    The thirty two disciplines are things I would actually think he could utilize, even if he chooses not to I have no doubt he is capable of using rhetoric and the other skills if the job called for it. He is before all else a pragmatist, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me that even if he doesn't normally use them he would actually possess all of those skills.

    EoMT is to represent his calculative ability in battle. When fighting against a magus that had him completely outclassed (archibald) he was able to survive, evade, and come up with a counter-strategy AND execute it all during the same engagement WHILE under great bodily duress for most of it do to using his time manipulation magecraft. Maybe it should be a lower rank, i dunno.

    Information erasure is in regards to the fact that while he was known as the Magus Killer almost NONE of the exploits he committed are known to be from him. There are many disappearances etc. that a rumored to be him, but that is pretty much it. It would be similar to having say a man who assassinated dozens of extremely high-profile diplomats and nobody knew that HE was the one that killed them, people might know he is an assassin, but not much else, and certainly not any specifics.

    I concede your point on projectiles.

    on subversive I have no doubt that he could execute eliminating 70 percent of a force before it mobilized. the only reason there weren't hundreds (maybe even the low thousands) of deaths at the hotel was because he had them evacuate. Using modern tech he absolutely could eliminate vast numbers of people in an opposing army without them ever even knowing.

    On henry, I agree with pretty much your entire assessment.

  9. #2969
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Mellon's Avatar
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    Okay, let me point out the inherent flaws with this sheet. First of all Kiri would never, ever be a Servant (or a Heroic Spirit). In the end, no matter what Shirou, etc does there is not enough fame for him to ever ascend to the Throne the "normal" way. The only way he could become one would be if he chose to be a Counter Guardian. Which means that he would get no NPs since he would have no "fame" to back it up (NPs are "proofs of heroisms", they are the crystallization of the legends surrounding the heroes).

    On avalon, I am under the impression that his becoming a heroic spirit is closely tied to Emiya Shirou's knowledge of the man, and that he would only become a heroic spirit something like 20-30 years (if not WAAAY longer) after the events of the grail war. Shirou would surely be telling the tales of how the man used Avalon to save Shirou's life.
    One person is meaningless to the Throne. No matter how many decades Shirou talks about Kiri, the level of fame needed is way beyond what Shirou can give (and incidentally, he does not consider Kiri to be a legendary figure anyway). For a Heroic Spirit to be born, you need a vast majority of mankind to believe in the heroic spirit in question. No matter what Shirou does, the vast majority of mankind (hell 99.999%) will never hear of him nor believe in him. If you got every magi in the world believing in Kiritsugus legendary heroism and godlike feats (which, will never happen), he still would not become a Heroic Spirit.

    And no to Avalon. Kiritsugu would never have Avalon. That is King Arthur's schtick. And even if he did (which is impossible) the only reason the healing works is because of the connection to Saber. Which he would not have. Heck, Saber did not get Avalon and now Kiri gets it for using it for basically 10 minutes?

    The thirty two disciplines are things I would actually think he could utilize, even if he chooses not to I have no doubt he is capable of using rhetoric and the other skills if the job called for it. He is before all else a pragmatist, and it seems perfectly reasonable to me that even if he doesn't normally use them he would actually possess all of those skills.
    BS. Assassin broke his soul into 30+ alternative personalities to be able to master that many skills. That is the entire point of it. Kiritsugu dealt only exclusively with weaponry and tracking. Basically normal military level stuff. And that is way, way different from what Expert of Many Specializations is. Espionage in general is one branch (this includes disguise, tracking, ect. Basically everything a spy might ever need). It is not that "sniping" and "using a handgun" are different skills. Rhetoric, Military Tactics, Academics. These are whole branches of knowledge.

    A rank is basically the Renaissance Man taken into max overdrive. This is for the guy who basically has 10 Ph.Ds (Academics) and then branched out to becoming a superhuman Assassin (Assassination) and then managed to sell Big Ben to most of the worlds governments (Swindling).

    About your love of A ranks, I would tell you that Kiri, who is basically a less impressive, less dedicated and less broken version of Archer, would never have A ranks in any skill (much like Archer). This is because modern humanity is crap when compared to the "golden age". Look at Archers skill/stat ranks. Those should be your maximum at very best. If your "Kiritsugu" is a CG that is. Otherwise, lower stat ranks even more because there is no Alaya boost hijinx.


    Baah, at least it is not a Tohno!Servant sheet.

    *whistles*
    Last edited by Mellon; October 21st, 2012 at 06:37 AM.

  10. #2970
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellon View Post
    Baah, at least it is not a Tohno!Servant sheet.

    *whistles*
    Poor I3uster


  11. #2971
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mellon View Post
    And no to Avalon. Kiritsugu would never have Avalon. That is King Arthur's schtick. And even if he did (which is impossible) the only reason the healing works is because of the connection to Saber. Which he would not have. Heck, Saber did not get Avalon and now Kiri gets it for using it for basically 10 minutes?
    Of course, the reason Saber doesn't get Avalon is because Kiritsugu NTR'd it. Avalon-chan has always been weak for "fixer-uppers".

  12. #2972
    Gläubig müssen die nicht sein, daran glauben müssen sie I3uster's Avatar
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    This thread is full of horrible, horrible people.
    [04:55] Lianru: i3uster is actuallly quite cute

  13. #2973
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Mellon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by I3uster View Post
    This thread is full of horrible, horrible people.
    No matter how many posts you make I3uster, the shame can never ever be washed away.

    You are branded with the mark of a Servant!Tohno creator. There is no mercy nor salvation waiting for you, as long as BL exists.

  14. #2974
    Kirgin Vitchen Apple's Avatar
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    Sadism is one of BL's many origins?

  15. #2975
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Mellon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apple View Post
    Sadism is one of BL's many origins?
    All roads lead to the Root. Therefore if we take sadism to the GREATEST EXTREMES, we will reach the Root.

    truefax.

  16. #2976
    夜属 Nightkin
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    Mellon, if all roads lead to the root does that mean that if we take "not finding the root" far enough we end up finding the root?

  17. #2977
    Quote Originally Posted by firloz View Post
    Mellon, if all roads lead to the root does that mean that if we take "not finding the root" far enough we end up finding the root?
    Yes. Its like falling so hard you crash through the bottom and come out on top again... sort of.

  18. #2978
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Mellon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firloz View Post
    Mellon, if all roads lead to the root does that mean that if we take "not finding the root" far enough we end up finding the root?
    If everything leads to the Root, then the action of "not finding the root" is impossible.

    Everything being what it is and all. :3

  19. #2979
    Lethum Milbunk's Avatar
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    So could you reach the root by doing nothing but flipping a pizza over all your life?

  20. #2980
    死徒二十七祖 The Twenty Seven Dead Apostle Ancestors Mellon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Milbunk View Post
    So could you reach the root by doing nothing but flipping a pizza over all your life?
    If you take flipping pizza to the absolute extremes (and no-one has gotten to the Root like that before to seal the path).

    Akasha is the Origin of Everything. Hypothetically, there is no difference in what you take to THE MAX. The end destination is still the same.

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