Bellerophon adds AC 100. So there's something with AC.Originally Posted by Amaranth
Bellerophon adds AC 100. So there's something with AC.
So ... why would anyone consider him to have more deeds and whatever up his name than people like Iskander, Genghis Khan, the first emporer of China or, to use a more recent example, Napoleon?
And EMIYA got Rin as Master ... (that is as lucky as it usually can get for a modern Hero without fame to his name ... as well for most Servants in general) since she´s nearly as good as master as Illya while at the same time lacking most of her troublesome personality issues and her troublesome inability to actually obtain the grail since she´s the grail´s vessel herself.
Last edited by Schattenbach; July 21st, 2013 at 01:14 PM.
So, would it be better if I place, say... Rin as his master to elaborate how he is that powerful?
He liberated a ton of South American (and by proxy Central American and North American and Caribbean) countries from Spanish (and by proxy Portuguese and French) control, installing democratic rule in the places he freed. Many of these countries would end up electing people who would become dictators - a good, related example is found in Brazil, which was ruled by a monarchy until the late 19th century or so, when it was overthrown. The people who overthrew the not-exactly-oppressive monarchy formed a dictatorship, which was replaced by another and not succeeded by a true democracy until the 1950s.
Even immediately after Bolivar's liberation, there was no unification or group ideal - each country that had been freed had no real identity of their own, and didn't exactly play nicely with each other. For many years, South America was not only ravaged by civil and territorial wars, but it was also economically busted because the lack of Spanish control over those provinces meant that there was no special shipping or trade rights for them anymore; they didn't get special treatment or preferential trading rights from European countries, and they were quite definitely on their own; it would take decades before their sluggish economies began to start up and heavily industrialize, a consequence that lingered in its aftereffects until the mid 19th century or so. Even one of the more "liberating" aspects of their new-found freedom, the abolition of slavery, was economically damaging because a huge source of income had been wiped away without any real forethought or available replacement.
Bolivar did an excellent job at freeing these countries, but he did an utterly horrible job at retaining their future growth and prosperity. If he really wanted to free these countries, he should have made precautions to ensure that they thrived socially and economically, rather than being meaninglessly "free" from Spanish rule - rule which helped them thrive; the main reason why these countries revolted was because of Napoleon putting his incompetent brother in charge of Spain.
Organized, thoughtful liberation is much better than being free for the sake of being free. Bolivar may have brought independence to the southern Americas, but he didn't seem to take into account the consequences, be they in the rise of oppressive dictatorships, economic failure or political isolation from Europe, where everything mattered.
All in all, Bolivar was impressive in how much land he freed, and he's famous no doubt, but he didn't do anything spectacular in the end.
<NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?
[11:20:46 AM] GlowStiks: lucina is supes attractive
[12:40] Lace: lucina is amazing
[12:40] Neir: lucina is pretty much flawless
Doesn't really make him any different than how King Arthur saw her kingdom fall apart.
Yes but King Arthur had a magical blasty sword, your argument is invalid.
<NEW FIC!> Revolution #9: Somewhere out there, there's a universe in which your mistakes and failures never happened, and all you wished for is true. How hard would you fight to make that real?
[11:20:46 AM] GlowStiks: lucina is supes attractive
[12:40] Lace: lucina is amazing
[12:40] Neir: lucina is pretty much flawless
Hmph. Point taken.
Then again, I'm not going to give him a similar weapon, but similar physical stats (similar, not the same). I took the Magic/Linker core into account and made his mana lower as a result.
Magic/Linker core?
What?
Also he should not have similar stats, he is modern (relatively) and hence weaker as a servant then someone like Saber.
Your trying to make someone a really powerful servant when he really should not be all that powerful, there are no myths surrounding him, no extraordinary fate defying feats, he was just a revolutionary that while accomplished something good does not deserve the power your giving him as a servant.
As a servant he should be someone like Emiya, who is more about strategy and skill rather then any power they have. Granted his stats should be a tad higher.
Last edited by Knick; July 21st, 2013 at 02:13 PM.
So ... is the "Trickster Archetype" Servant sufficiently broken or did I fail in accomplishing that?
So long as he can fight someone like Lancer off I'm fine with it.
Excalibur aside, does Arthur has any other deeds to her account?
Lancer is Cu Chulainn, one of the most famous Irish heroes. As well as being a demigod.
He should not be your standard.
Look up the tales. Arthur actually did a fair amount of things outside of having Excalibur.Excalibur aside, does Arthur has any other deeds to her account?
In addition to his deeds he was favored by the Fae.
--- Updated ---
No, Emiya is a CG and he as kinda bad stats even with Rin as a master.
So its not an excuse for if you want him so powerful, having a good master is more about fully realizing the potential of the servant. It can buff stats beyond normal, but its more likely that a servant will be nerfed in some way by their master then buffed.
Last edited by Knick; July 21st, 2013 at 04:02 PM.
You mean stuff like killing one thousand people in one charge, fighting dragons and the welsh loch ness monster, winning loads of duels and winning 12 impossible to win battles. No nothing like that.
Oh and Shirou Saber had lower stats than your guy and she was quite powerful and not a CG.
I know, but I'm using the "Performance" stats. As in his highest possible stats. He can be weaker.
If I make him weaker than Lancer then throwing him into a Grail War would be suicidal. I'm trying to make someone that can go out and seek fights rather than hole himself inside his master's workshop.
Hence why I've been thinking on using those stats as a blank slate for developing him further, but...
If it were up to you, how would you rank his STR, DEF and AGL?
B, C, C. Skill and tactics can overcome stats and a smart np even more so.
How is being weaker than Iancer suicidal? Cu is like in the top 5 servants we've seen.
Last edited by BlackField; July 21st, 2013 at 07:26 PM.
If I were to summon someone like Bolivar in the 4th/5th war, what would the outcome be?
He'd die rather fast.
Iskander, Heracles, Cu (when allowed to fight at his maxed potential), Gilgamesh, all Saber variations and more Gorgon-ish Medusa would likely stomp him quite easily, while EMIYA (sniping), Medea (with her two Saber-like defenders and her magecraft), regular Medusa, Giles (when summoning enough horror-stuff), extremly weakened Saber, Iskander lacking enough Prana for his RM, Zero!Lancer (especially when employing hit and run), and Lancelot (thanks to extremly high battle provness and sky-high parameters) would all also beat him up quite nicely if he´s unlucky but under the right circumstances (like setting up a nasty trap, Servant and/or Master is sufficiently weakened, etc.), victory seems realistic. The Assassins seem beatable but they´re not going to go for a straight fight against a Saber-Class opponent, or do they?
Exactly. The servant I'm making is a SABER! It needs to be able to find those guys, fight them head on and survive (not win) and the EMIYA logic doesn't applies for being a Counter-Guardian and an ARCHER. It was also determined EMIYA would lose to Aoko Aozaki, and making a servant so a untalented mage can fodderize him seems rather insane.
Class means nothing except determine the preferred combat type and class skills.
The actual identity is what is important. Your trying to make someone more powerful then he should be. If you want to make a really powerful servant make one that actually deserves to be that strong.
I mean the reason Sabers are so strong are the ones that have been summoned, King Arther, Siegfried, Mordred, Gawain... hell even Nero.
They are all far more powerful servants then Bolivar can ever hope to be.
And it is possible that Emiya could beat Aoko, granted it would be an incredibly difficult fight, he is still a servant after all with a arsenal of NPs.
What about Jeanne d'Arc? Is she more heroic than the man who initiated an ideology?
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