Fate/strange fake (Free-Range Spoilers)

[Lily Emilio]

Quite likely. Still, aside from Odin possibly carving out Valkyries in her image every account regarding Altera's actions in the past I can think of ties her with Olympians in one way or another. Look at what Seres posted: "the very embodiment of War" is definitely Ares/Mars specifically not "war gods" in general. Then there is her being a basis for myths about Nemesis and Athena, and her remnants turning into Giants...

Sefar herself is based on the fish god paintings in Tassili n'Ajjer, Sahara. It is more likely for her to be related to African deities. Surtr also has certain similarities to her with his abilities. The reason that you can link her to the Olympians is because they are currently the pantheon we knew the most about. We literally got information about their entire myth within 2 chapters. Meanwhile we barely knew anything about other pantheons, especially their origins. Once we learned all about other pantheons and they don't have any mention to her, that's when your suspicion would make a bit of sense.

Perhaps she only defeated Olympians and every other Pantheon just resigned seeing that they don't stand a chance (being equal in power to Olympians).

Except that she cannot be reasoned with, like Tamamo said. Even if you're down on the knee begging, the titan will still curbstomp you. That's why the case of Mesopotamia gods managed to form a contract that they will help her one time in exchange for her not fighting them was a special case and we still don't know how they managed to do it.

And again, Vasavi Shakti exists, Tiamat exists but was sealed away long b4 Sefar arrives, Chaos was also always there. So it's not that they have zero chance, they just did not go that far. Vasavi Shakti was probably created a bit too late in the war and the holy sword beat the titan before it was finished, the Mesopotamian gods probably didn't want to take the risk of using Tiamat to fight Sefar which will wipe the planet clean regardless (beside, asking mommy for help after sealing her away for ages is not a good idea), and the Olympians did not want to merge or let Chaos into this dimension.

I am pretty sure that at that point even the Mecha-Gods came to embody different aspects of Earth's nature like they do in the 5th Lostbelt.

Nope. They are literally just using their functions as machines to manipulate the environment. Their mechanical functions are "close to be equivalence to Authorities". Because they are not embodiment of natures like the native gods of Earth, they have to substitute Authorities with their functions. The Olympians at that time did not "abandon their material bodies to become one with nature" like a lot of gods from other pantheons. They did not become concepts with True Ether bodies, but they were still products of an alien technology and civilization, thus they still could not escape Sefar's bullshit.

[Blastedspider]

Meanwhile we barely knew anything about other pantheons, especially their origins. Once we learned all about other pantheons and they don't have any mention to her, that's when your suspicion would make a bit of sense.

Reasonable objection. Yet we do see Mesopotamian, Scandinavian, and Indian mythological Textures, and there is a little reason to mention Altera's connection with Olympians in the context of Extella.

Except that she cannot be reasoned with, like Tamamo said. Even if you're down on the knee begging, the titan will still curbstomp you.

They could have ceased pointless resistance or/and scurried off into higher-dimensions or something like that.

Nope. They are literally just using their functions as machines to manipulate the environment

I don't think it makes any practical difference. Poseidon had command over the Sea, Demeter over Earth, Ares is an embodiment of War as per Tamamo's narration etc. And even mecha bodies must be made from True Ether as they're affected by Black Barrel.

[Lily Emilio]

Reasonable objection. Yet we do see Mesopotamian, Scandinavian, and Indian mythological Textures, and there is a little reason to mention Altera's connection with Olympians in the context of Extella.

Because in those textures all of the gods were freaking gone. Mesopotamia texture is during Gil's era where humans already took over, Scandinavian were still in Ragnarok and the only survivor was Skadi, and Indian texture was already messed up by Arjuna to the point Mara managed to escape. There were absolutely no reason to expect Sefar lore in there when it has absolutely nothing to do with the story.

They could have ceased pointless resistance or/and scurried off into higher-dimensions or something like that.

They only go to higher dimensions after the Age of Gods is over. Again, you're literally throwing random things on the wall to see which one sticks, and so far none of that made any sense. Not to mention this is completely off topic.

I don't think it makes any practical difference.

It freaking does. Literally the entire reason for why Zeus is superior to Arjuna and Skadi is because of the very fact that he is not like them. Their Authorities are not granted to them by the planet, or human worship, but from the technology of the alien civilization, so they will keep their power regardless of humans faith. The fact that they won in LB5 literally CHANGED THE IDEA OF WHAT GODS ARE to their own standard of machines = gods and nanomachines = Authorities.

Poseidon had command over the Sea, Demeter over Earth, Ares is an embodiment of War as per Tamamo's narration etc.

Tamamo's narration refers to all gods as a whole, she literally grouped her into that bunch. She did not specify just the Olympians.

Also Demeter and Poseidon are terraforming ships, they don't have Authorities and command over those things, they just forcefully change those environment with their mechanical functions. This is completely different from actual Authorities which are "the rights to do w/e the heck I want".

And even mecha bodies must be made from True Ether as they're affected by Black Barrel.

False. They are affected by the Black Barrel is because the Black Barrel "applies the universal law of lifespan". All things in the universe, including the universe itself, has an expiration date. This is not the law of Earth but the law of the entire universe, that's why even the Types got messed up from it despite being immune to Earth's law. The bodies of the mecha gods are made out of divine steel, and from this steel their nanomachines were made.

[Blastedspider]

Because in those textures all of the gods were freaking gone

Wrong. Ishtar/Ereshkigal in Mesopotamia, Freya/Sitonai, Skadi in the Scandinavia, Ganesha and Alakshmi in India (sure, most of them are Pseudos but it's not like this affects their memories).
And you don't really have to be a God to reference conflict.

There were absolutely no reason to expect Sefar lore in there when it has absolutely nothing to do with the story.

References don't really have to be very plot-relevant. As I said there is a very little reason to focus on Olympians in the Velber-02 backstory in the context of Extella.

They only go to higher dimensions after the Age of Gods is over. Again, you're literally throwing random things on the wall to see which one sticks, and so far none of that made any sense. Not to mention this is completely off topic

Perhaps they just gave and didn't put up a fight at all then. And it's a guess: I am trying to convince anyone just expressing an idea.

It freaking does. Literally the entire reason for why Zeus is superior to Arjuna and Skadi is because of the very fact that he is not like them.

What difference does the source of the Authority have in the context of fighting Velber? Also, IIRC it is never explained how exactly Zeus is different from Skadi, which is another example of proper living God (as opposed to a Divine Spirit).

Tamamo's narration refers to all gods as a whole, she literally grouped her into that bunch

The very embodiment of War, with its great sword, couldn't touch that thing.

It is obviously Mars/Ares. So him being a mecha (having a mecha body?) didn't prevent him from embodying a Concept.

[Lily Emilio]

Wrong. Ishtar/Ereshkigal in Mesopotamia, Freya/Sitonai, Skadi in the Scandinavia, Ganesha and Alakshmi in India (sure, most of them are Pseudos but it's not like this affects their memories).

False. All of them except Skadi were summoned to the era. They were never there from the start. They also had zero reason to talk about Sefar, that would be dumb. There situation are completely different from LB5 where Sefar is directly relevant to their backstory that has to be brought up.

And you don't really have to be a God to reference conflict.

And you don't have to reference completely irrelevant shits to the story being told. Why the hell that they have to tell the entire history from beginning to end that has nothing to do with the condition of the story. The story of Sefar was only brought up when it is relevant, and it was extremely relevant in both Extella and LB5. It was not relevant AT ALL in all other cases. You're basically saying that it's necessary and logical to mention how Gil lost to Shirou in all instances of him showing up.

As I said there is a very little reason to focus on Olympians in the Velber-02 backstory in the context of Extella.

Except that Extella was all about Velber invading and wiping the earth, what do you talk about except Velber's backstory? It is more relevant than anything you're babbling about all this time.

Perhaps they just gave and didn't put up a fight at all then. And it's a guess: I am trying to convince anyone just expressing an idea.

And your idea is 1) nonsense and not fit the source materials and 2) completely irrelevant to a topic about Fate/strange fake. Like I said there is nothing suggested that they gave up. I pointed out not just one time but 2,3 times that THEY ALL HAD THE TOOLS TO DEAL WITH SEFAR but you still pretend none of that exist to push your "they were all cowards and did not fight at all" idea when there is nothing suggesting that. Stop the mecha gods wank you're trying to do.

What difference does the source of the Authority have in the context of fighting Velber?

The difference is massive. Authorities like the one Arjuna has is literally "I have the power to rewrite the world so I rewrite it". Zeus is "I use my raw power to nuke the world then I build it again". One is a hax ability and one is raw power. That's why when he got buffed up through fusion he finally had enough raw power to punch down Sefar with raw damage of his universe-shaking lightning. This same feat cannot be done in the case of conceptual gods because no matter how powerful their attacks are, all will get nullified. That's why Tamamo's raw stats were brought up when talking about Sefar rather than her Authorities, because while she might not be able to use Authorities on Sefar in a fight she can still try physical damage.

Also, IIRC it is never explained how exactly Zeus is different from Skadi, which is another example of proper living God (as opposed to a Divine Spirit).

Skadi is also a living god like Arjuna. A divinity inside a living human body (Arjuna is several divinities inside a living human body). There is no difference between them except for how many Authorities they have.

It is obviously Mars/Ares. So him being a mecha (having a mecha body?) didn't prevent him from embodying a Concept.

False. Mars almost beat Sefar, being one of the strongest god at the time, and the battle with him was so impressive that Altera only remembered him and he still installs a killsat to snipe her. So whoever Tamamo is referring to is NOT Mars whatsoever, what if it's Takemikazuchi or SusanoO? Those two also have swords and also played the role of war gods. Do you seriously thought Mars is the only war god with a sword? Like cmon dude.

[Blastedspider]

Yeah, its definitely some other sword-wielding God of War instead of the one which is mentioned pretty much every time Altera's past is brought up.

Fine, whatever, lol.

[Lily Emilio]

Yeah it is definitely not Amaterasu's naughty brother who has a big sword and is the embodiment of storm, chaos, heroic, war and was able to scared the shit out of her in her own myth. Yup, there is absolutely no chance that her mighty brother who almost destroyed heaven itself yet couldn't even touch the titan and seeing that went down traumatized her. Definitely not him and has to be the guy who was able to do the exact opposite of what Tamamo said.

Just let this topic return to its original purpose.

[You]

I don't think it makes any practical difference. Poseidon had command over the Sea, Demeter over Earth, Ares is an embodiment of War as per Tamamo's narration etc. And even mecha bodies must be made from True Ether as they're affected by Black Barrel.

False. They are affected by the Black Barrel is because the Black Barrel "applies the universal law of lifespan". All things in the universe, including the universe itself, has an expiration date. This is not the law of Earth but the law of the entire universe, that's why even the Types got messed up from it despite being immune to Earth's law. The bodies of the mecha gods are made out of divine steel, and from this steel their nanomachines were made.

Mash uses the barrel replica.

Barrel Replica#report error
weapon
The mystic code possessed by Sion. A replica of the Black Barrel, one of the seven superweapons on display at the Atlas Institute. It is a conceptual armament of “natural lifespan,” which demonstrates a toxin (attack power) in proportion to the predestined span of the target’s life.
Sion uses this Barrel Replica in her Arc Drive, but it seems that she isn’t utilizing its original function.
Also, though she discharges the energy horizontally in her Last Arc, Barrel Replica Obelisk, she is able to avoid being blown back by the recoil by anchoring her body to the ground with Etherlite.

MB Act Cadenza PS2 Manual: Tsukihime Dictionary

[SpoonyViking]

She does? Is that in LB5?

[Reign]

Yeah. Sion built it for her.

[Rafflesiac]

Gets a kickass theme and an ok.jpg buff to go with it too.

[AAM1232]

Does anyone know the OST that plays in UBW S2 E11 11:30 when the grail spills mud and Gil starts monologuing about human malevolence? Think i recall that it wasn't a soundtrack from the anime but from one of the games.

Quite literally the strangest thread to ask in. There's a Questions thread right there, and the Miscellaneous/whatever threads for further off topic stuff.

[AAM1232]

Right where, sorry?

https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthrea...FOR-ANSWERS%29

[SpoonyViking]

Yeah. Sion built it for her.

Gets a kickass theme and an ok.jpg buff to go with it too.

Nice!

[ricky36]

https://forums.nrvnqsr.com/showthrea...FOR-ANSWERS%29

Thanks

[Lily Emilio]

Mash uses the barrel replica.

Yes she did, I never said she did not. I just literally repeated Holmes' explanation for how it works. If the universe is finite then so does all things exist within it, and thus this "natural lifespan" is applied to all living things as a universal concept. So the replica would still work on Types as it utilizes something not exclusive to Earth beings, there's no need to have the original.

[You]

blastedspider thought mash uses the original.

[Cylascream]

Uhh, this went quite off topic but wasn't it implied that Olympians knew about the Umbrel Star but didn't expext that it would drop into Earth, and when it did, they got caught off guard. Also, are we sure that Vasavi Shakti could kill the Sefar that was in the Earth that absorbed huge amounts of Civilizations? As far as I know It has been been said that VS could kill Sefar in Karna's side story in Extella, but Moon Cell Sefar was on her weaker stages. Where's the guarantee that VS being able to kill the Sefar that absorbed Greek and Countless other Pantheons?

[Lily Emilio]

Uhh, this went quite off topic but wasn't it implied that Olympians knew about the Umbrel Star but didn't expext that it would drop into Earth, and when it did, they got caught off guard.

Ancient humans of that time also knew, not just them. There is a paragraph in Extella about how the ancient civilizations predicted the disaster but did not expect it to come so early. This sparked a theory back then that the attack aiming at Earth was planned and Velber was invited (and probably supported when she landed) by a traitor from Earth's side.

but Moon Cell Sefar was on her weaker stages.

False. Moon Cell Sefar is actually superior. She starts at stage 3 instead of stage 1 on Earth and there is no limit to her growth due to being in the cyberworld (similar to Moon Cell Kingprotea being able to grow to the size that can crush planets and threaten the universe, there is no limit to her growth). On Earth, Sefar's growth is heavily restricted by the planet's gravity, thus she started at stage 1 and could only reach max 7 while in Moon Cell she has unlimited growth range. The only reason she was stopped on the Moon was due to the one on Earth got blasted, which stunned the one of the Moon for a brief moment.

We also did not know which stage Sefar was in when she got killed on Earth, you're just assuming it's stage 7. This is not to mention that Vasavi Shakti on the Moon is being used by Karna, not the original owner Indra. If Indra is the user, expect it to be much stronger than Karna's version. And remember that Vishnu exists, he is the one with the power to merge with the entire pantheon that Arjuna took advantage of in LB4. So they can do the exact same thing Zeus did in LB5 to fight Sefar. Fuse into super Vishnu or something and use the buffed Vasavi Shakti (which probably will look like the Trishula version of Super Karna) -> profit.

You seem to forget that Sefar was not soloing all pantheons and attributed way too much to her individual strength. She used the Void Cells to corrupt various creatures on Earth, including turning animals into kaiju size. The ancient gods did not have to fight just Sefar, they had to also fight her giant army who can and will continue to corrupt many other things on their route, turning those victims against their planet, similar to Tiamat's Chaos Tide. Imagine Sefar + some giant divine beasts (like Gugalanna), a bunch of Ivan's mammoths and other kaiju-size beasts in one team, and potentially former gods who was unlucky and got corrupted by void cells...that's what the gods had to deal with back then.

Her portrayal in Extella, being defeated by the playable servants, gave false impression that she is weak, but the reason for her defeat was thanks to Moon Cell learning from its past experience, creating the Regalia and Moon Crunch/Moon Drive which allows the player servants to directly damage Sefar, bypassing all of her bullshits.

[Cylascream]

thank you.