Fate/strange fake (Free-Range Spoilers)

[Comun]

So, Ayaka and Sigma are two characters split from the concept of Fake/states Night's multi-Servanted protagonist. This idea expresses itself in Richard's seven retinue and Watcher's seven shades. Richard's friends are explicitly said to follow the framework of the seven regular classes, but since Watcher's shades are also seven, I wonder if they're meant to fit the same frames. I think it can work like

Saber Stephen
Archer Orion
Lancer Ahab (harpoon)
Rider Amelia Earhart
Caster Asclepius
Assassin Musashi
Berserker Icarus

[Emeraldwolf]

So, Ayaka and Sigma are two characters split from the concept of Fake/states Night's multi-Servanted protagonist. This idea expresses itself in Richard's seven retinue and Watcher's seven shades. Richard's friends are explicitly said to follow the framework of the seven regular classes, but since Watcher's shades are also seven, I wonder if they're meant to fit the same frames. I think it can work like

Saber Stephen
Archer Orion
Lancer Ahab (harpoon)
Rider Amelia Earhart
Caster Asclepius
Assassin Musashi
Berserker Icarus

I can definitely see Berserker Icarus working after the Daedalus battle in the current JP event.

[Asch]

So, Ayaka and Sigma are two characters split from the concept of Fake/states Night's multi-Servanted protagonist. This idea expresses itself in Richard's seven retinue and Watcher's seven shades. Richard's friends are explicitly said to follow the framework of the seven regular classes, but since Watcher's shades are also seven, I wonder if they're meant to fit the same frames. I think it can work like

Saber Stephen
Archer Orion
Lancer Ahab (harpoon)
Rider Amelia Earhart
Caster Asclepius
Assassin Musashi
Berserker Icarus

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Ahab say that his class would've been closer to Avenger or less so Rider? Also, this is just for curiosity, but what lead you to the conclusion that Saber, Archer, and Assassin were their respective people? Everyone else I can very much understand, but I haven't been keeping up with the Watcher Shadow identity conversation all too well

[asterism42]

IIRC it's mentioned something like one of Watcher's shadows is a burly womanizing hunter who has a close relationship with a goddess. Thus Orion.

[Comun]

Yeah, Ahab does believe his default class is Avenger.

I'm not sure what the second question is asking though. Is the question about the choice of classes or about their names?

[thePugnacityOfThisWitch]

the "saber" is a child knight, seems to be personally familiar with richard, and in the manga is shown wearing a teutonic knight's garb - therefore, the theory is it's one of the leaders of the failed children's crusade, in this case stephen de cloyes

the musashi theory is a bit more murky, but at one point he makes a passing comment about using chopsticks as a weapon (or rather, not being able to anymore), which is a feat popularly attributed to musashi in folklore (the ol catching a fly with chopsticks trick)

and it's not just here, the JP side has come to basically the same conclusions

[Asch]

Yeah, Ahab does believe his default class is Avenger.

I'm not sure what the second question is asking though. Is the question about the choice of classes or about their names?

About the names, I can understand most of them (Ahab, Amelia, Asclepius, Icarus and now Orion) but I was confused as to how we got to the identity of some of the others. Like Stephen, and Musashi

[Daemon]

I thought the connecting theme between the shadows was hubris and failing at their goal, but not sure how Orion and Musashi fit into this (admittedly I also don't know a lot about them)

[Kamera]

Orion's hubris is threatening to commit mass genocide on every animal on earth but ended up being hunted down by the Scorpion which Gaia created.

[Dartz]

Is that actually part of his backstory? Why would he try to kill every animal on earth?

[Kamera]

Powelevel pissing contest with his goddess of the hunt girlfriend

[Noa]

Is that actually part of his backstory? Why would he try to kill every animal on earth?

Showing off to his crush

Orion was Artemis' hunting companion; after giving up on trying to find Oenopion, Orion met Artemis and her mother Leto, and joined the goddess in hunting. A great hunter himself, he bragged that he would kill every beast on earth. Gaia, the earth, was not too pleased to hear that, and sent a giant scorpion to sting him. Artemis then transferred him into the stars as the constellation Orion.

[madarra]

Powelevel pissing contest with his goddess of the hunt girlfriend

that just reminded of the version of Orion born from the pissing contest of 3 gods

[Emeraldwolf]

Powelevel pissing contest with his goddess of the hunt girlfriend

What happened to our society, we used to have real flirting

[Dreamyaarav]

Actually I'm pretty sure that's not how the Fate Version went.

We know from S Orion's Profile that Fate went with the version of the myth where Apollo tricked Artemis into shooting Orion dead(Funilly enough, this might have also been what got ASCELPIUS killed, because Zeus didn't want him to bring Orion back at Artemis's behest).

So as fas as Fate is concerned, Hubris CAN'T be the uniting factor here, since this Orion was just swimming and minding his own business before he got killed because greek gods are jerks.

[Daemon]

As far as I know Musashi really only mogged people in life so I'm not sure where his big downfall was

[You]

Actually I'm pretty sure that's not how the Fate Version went.

We know from S Orion's Profile that Fate went with the version of the myth where Apollo tricked Artemis into shooting Orion dead(Funilly enough, this might have also been what got ASCELPIUS killed, because Zeus didn't want him to bring Orion back at Artemis's behest).

So as fas as Fate is concerned, Hubris CAN'T be the uniting factor here, since this Orion was just swimming and minding his own business before he got killed because greek gods are jerks.

He still has the Curse of Scorpio as a skill and its mentioned as a one of his numerous causes of death. So even if it didn't happen that way, it can still count because the legend exists.
Also as per Narita's tweet, Watcher's shadows are not the same as their possible Heroic Spirit forms.

[Asch]

So, Ayaka and Sigma are two characters split from the concept of Fake/states Night's multi-Servanted protagonist. This idea expresses itself in Richard's seven retinue and Watcher's seven shades. Richard's friends are explicitly said to follow the framework of the seven regular classes, but since Watcher's shades are also seven, I wonder if they're meant to fit the same frames. I think it can work like

Saber Stephen
Archer Orion
Lancer Ahab (harpoon)
Rider Amelia Earhart
Caster Asclepius
Assassin Musashi
Berserker Icarus

Going back to this, I think all of these fit barring zerker icarus (He is the odd one out and zerker is the last class left, but personally he feels like a rider servant. Maybe the recent FGO will change this thought though). Interestingly enough, I think that Ahab would have avenger skills even outside of avenger.

[thePugnacityOfThisWitch]

speaking of the musashi bit, i have seen it pointed out in a jp wiki that the chopstick story originally comes from another, really obscure samurai from Iwakuni around the end of the Edo period, Uno Kintarou - a guy so obscure he doesn't even have an article in jp wikipedia, never mind any english sources mentioning him, at least any that i can find on short notice

i only bring him up bc curiously, he does have a thematically-fitting "gets-a-bit-big-for-his-britches-and-faces-the-humiliating-consequences" story of his own

guy went through all the usual "wow greatest swordsman of all time, wow so talented at a young age" hubbub, the chopstick story, etc, apparently beat Katsura Kogoro in a duel, gets a local Iwakuni saying named after him, the works

but eventually he duelled and beat the shit out of a certain Saito Kannosuke of the Shindo Munen-ryu school (where you'll see a lotta familiar faces)

and in response, Saito wrote a letter to Busshoji Yasuke (not that Yasuke, different guy), his father's best student, assassin and known buddy of Serizawa Kamo, and basically told him to knock Uno down a peg or five, yknow for reputation's sake

so Busshoji went over to a very puffed-up Uno (who continued to trash-talk Saito) and utterly destroyed him in three consecutive duels until Uno gave up - then to rub it in, Kannosuke immediately and forcibly challenged him (still tired, beaten, battered and dispirited) to a rematch, just to kick him while he was down

guy never emotionally recovered from that humiliation and died in his late 30s of illness

lowkey kinda fitting for the theme (and perhaps an easier sell than became-the-best-then-retired-to-vibe-and-write-alone-in-a-cave Musashi), but the guy is so obscure aside from being the supposed inspiration for the chopstick bit in the Eiji Yoshikawa Musashi series that i genuinely am unsure if there's any weight to this being a possibility (eh i mean, either way still thought it was an interesting enough research rabbit hole to share anyway)

[Skull]

Apropos of nothing, although she flew under the radar for me during most of F/SF’s run, Hippolyta has definitely become the Servant I am most interested in seeing show up in FGO as between her, Oberon and Shakespeare - you have the potential to make a really entertaining Midsummer Night’s Dream event - especially if you get a motley crew of pre-existing characters to play the part of the Mechanicals and whatnot.