Fate/strange fake (Free-Range Spoilers)

[jennajayfeather]

So on the subject of references:

I hope Flat references some JTR movies soon.

Fingers crossed for Terror at London Bridge

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

In my head I think of it as a spin-off but can work as a sequel to FSN or FZ (actually more so FZ with Sigma & Flat)

To each their own, I like that it takes place in the same setting. I jumped into this for more Waver

I also like the setting for its continuity with FSN, FZ, and FHA, as well as the exploration of an Apo-like format in the FSN worlds. Also, it's just been done so much better than Apo already.

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Also I said this b4 but will say this again: Gil + Enkidu + Ishtar + Cloud Bull showing up all in the same place is the cheapest way possible to reference the Epic of Gilgamesh.
And I just realized that all of what I ranted would fit more with the unpopular opinion thread becuz most ppl in this topic love those.

Personally, glad the real Gugulanna is showing up with an Ishtar not held back by Rin. That, and she has proven to be a fucking badass, so at least she semi-earns her keep.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Yes, she will be his Nitocris.

She even looks like a younger Nitocris to an extent.

[Bobin]

I can’t help but be impressed by Narita’s intent on stringing together a story of nothing but references from everything from background extras to pointless detail you wouldn’t expect a official writer to have the indignity of digging up... over and over. Every other paragraph seems like it feels necessary to owe it’s conception to a insignificant topic even Nasu would be satisfied to leave just as and never bother with again. Like, wow

[noname14]

"everything is permitted, nothing is true"
Nasu to Narita

The story is called Strange Fake for a reason

[Leftovers]

I can’t help but be impressed by Narita’s intent on stringing together a story of nothing but references from everything from background extras to pointless detail you wouldn’t expect a official writer to have the indignity of digging up... over and over. Every other paragraph seems like it feels necessary to owe it’s conception to a insignificant topic even Nasu would be satisfied to leave just as and never bother with again. Like, wow

All derivative works are referential to their source to an extent, more so in the case of the common Fate/ and by extension Nasuverse framework. Ultimately it's all about how a writer utilises these connections to preexisting worldbuilding elements. "Reference" as a point of detraction implies gratuitousness that serves no other purpose but to invoke an element the reader is already familiar with to generate interest or the simple satisfaction of recognition, but I think Narita's strongest point as a Fate/ writer is that out of the official fanfic writers he really gets what TM fanfiction at its best is: stories that spring out of Nasu's worldbuilding notes and expand on elements that the man himself only briefly touched upon or hinted at in such a way that their original content feels organically connected to canon. It's a relatable sentiment, which makes it heartening to see that Narita loves the setting he's writing for in the same way.

[You]

But the events of FSN and FHA still happened, and they have a direct effect on the plot, as does the Third HGW. However, we are going to eternally disagree about references, aren't we?

tbh we don't know what version of HA happened yet

[Ronove]

I'm fine with Narita's characterization. I'm even willing to overlook the encyclopedia's worth of superfluous references since it's clear that Narita loves the setting and has researched it in-depth. What I can't get over is that SF still feels like a 'nothing' work, 5 volumes in. There are no themes. There's no central plot. No focus. It's just wacky masters and servants doing whatever. I hope that changes and there'll finally be something to rally the characters behind.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

All derivative works are referential to their source to an extent, more so in the case of the common Fate/ and by extension Nasuverse framework. Ultimately it's all about how a writer utilises these connections to preexisting worldbuilding elements. "Reference" as a point of detraction implies gratuitousness that serves no other purpose but to invoke an element the reader is already familiar with to generate interest or the simple satisfaction of recognition, but I think Narita's strongest point as a Fate/ writer is that out of the official fanfic writers he really gets what TM fanfiction at its best is: stories that spring out of Nasu's worldbuilding notes and expand on elements that the man himself only briefly touched upon or hinted at in such a way that their original content feels organically connected to canon. It's a relatable sentiment, which makes it heartening to see that Narita loves the setting he's writing for in the same way.

I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment, and it's what I tried to express a couple of pages ago.

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I'm fine with Narita's characterization. I'm even willing to overlook the encyclopedia's worth of superfluous references since it's clear that Narita loves the setting and has researched it in-depth. What I can't get over is that SF still feels like a 'nothing' work, 5 volumes in. There are no themes. There's no central plot. No focus. It's just wacky masters and servants doing whatever. I hope that changes and there'll finally be something to rally the characters behind.

I think the themes are getting there, mostly through Ayaka and Sigma. For Ayaka, it's about whether or not she should DO something to make up for her inaction in this Grail War, and for Sigma, it's about finding something to believe in. Actually, finding something to believe in worth fighting for even pops up with Jack and Flatt, and Richard kinda has that thing going on too because there's the whole was his shit really worth it.

[castor212]

Durarara took like, what, 6-7 volumes to avtually really get me onto itHow many volumes did narita said this thing is going to be again lol

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Durarara took like, what, 6-7 volumes to avtually really get me onto itHow many volumes did narita said this thing is going to be again lol

9-10, I think.

[noname14]

All Narita's works I've ever read so far can be summed up to "factions war for fun and no particular reason"...

[jennajayfeather]

The overall themes should come at the end. You don’t always have to start with a theme, another approach is to start the characters first, then let the themes write themselves.

Tbh I think there’s a bunch of major themes

-Truth vs Falsehoods
-Finding something to fight for
-Cold Pragmatism vs Kindness

EDIT:
I talk about the balcony scene a lot with Flat, but like the theme with that scene “feeling different from other people, but that is okay. Everyone feels different from others” I feel is something a lot of people can relate to.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

All Narita's works I've ever read so far can be summed up to "factions war for fun and no particular reason"...

And all of them have some form of organized crime, usually the mafia.

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The overall themes should come at the end. You don’t always have to start with a theme, another approach is to start the characters first, then let the themes write themselves.

Tbh I think there’s a bunch of major themes

-Truth vs Falsehoods
-Finding something to fight for
-Cold Pragmatism vs Kindness

Well, it appears we agree on one theme. I think the first is also present and feeds into the second, but the third, I don't see so much, as that could just as easily be applied to Zero or really any other Grail War. I think another related theme would be the question of how much your past actions and being define who you are in the present.

[jennajayfeather]

The third I’m thinking specifically of what is driving people to make the first move to save Tsubaki; Flat said himself that had it just been his problem he would have abandoned her or killed her himself, but he said he wouldn’t because of Waver and it’s Waver’s & El Melloi school’s [kindness] that has Flat follow those ideals; same with Jack whose initial plan was to bomb the hospital.

Orlando in a similar position with them, when he was musing how a mage’s mage is no different from a corrupt politician—but where does he fall with “justice”

Sure, it’s been central in other Fate works, but that’s not to say it doesn’t exist in SF or is unimportant. Right now it’s the sole factor driving some sort of “plot.”

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

The third I’m thinking specifically of what is driving people to make the first move to save Tsubaki; Flat said himself that had it just been his problem he would have abandoned her or killed her himself, but he said he wouldn’t because of Waver and it’s Waver’s & El Melloi school’s [kindness] that has Flat follow those ideals; same with Jack whose initial plan was to bomb the hospital.

Orlando in a similar position with them, when he was musing how a mage’s mage is no different from a corrupt politician—but where does he fall with “justice”

Sure, it’s been central in other Fate works, but that’s not to say it doesn’t exist in SF or is unimportant. Right now it’s the sole factor driving some sort of “plot.”

I see where you're coming from, but I think it bleeds into the second theme of finding something to fight for, because Flatt has based his entire compass on what El-Melloi would do, and Orlando's whole schtick about justice kind of matches that too. Actually, your theme could be better worded as is it better to pursue justice, even when it is self-defeating, or is ruthless, goal-oriented pragmatism the way to go, and even then, is justice incompatible with the way of a mage or not?

[34]

I'm fine with Narita's characterization. I'm even willing to overlook the encyclopedia's worth of superfluous references since it's clear that Narita loves the setting and has researched it in-depth. What I can't get over is that SF still feels like a 'nothing' work, 5 volumes in. There are no themes. There's no central plot. No focus. It's just wacky masters and servants doing whatever. I hope that changes and there'll finally be something to rally the characters behind.

That's how Narita works

as someone in Baccano puts it:

"Depending on who you place in the same situation, the characteristics of said incident change kaleidoscopically. In other words, there is one incident; however, there are as many stories explaining it as there are people involved in it..."

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that said, it's precisely why it's so entertaining

you don't have to worry about 2deep4you or 2edgy4me stuffs, just enjoy these characters duke it out

[jennajayfeather]

Actually, your theme could be better worded as is it better to pursue justice, even when it is self-defeating, or is ruthless, goal-oriented pragmatism the way to go, and even then, is justice incompatible with the way of a mage or not?

That’s a good way of putting it //I had been just listing stuff short & sweet

I feel like that does bleed into a lot & much is open to interpretation too.

Analyzing is fun.

[SirGauoftheSquareTable]

Indeed, and another part of that justice theme is why should one even pursue justice or ignore it in the first place? Both Orlando and Flatt had to wrestle with that question.

[Spartacus]

just enjoy these characters duke it out

This is actually what I do about majority of TM.

I probably only care about Rin, Saber, Illya, Dr. Roman and Mashu as characters.