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Thread: Fate/strange fake (Free-Range Spoilers)

  1. #9941
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    I thought that was the game?

  2. #9942
    夜・露・死・苦! Kamerad's Avatar
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    goddamnit

  3. #9943
    吸血鬼 Vampire Lelo's Avatar
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    I don't find the basic concept that hard to grasp.
    It is something the human mind is not really used to think about, at least not in those terms, but that "weirdness" aside I don't think the simple idea behind it is that complex.

  4. #9944
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    I'll just take it as some very specific religious concept with no direct analogue Nasu borrowed.
    It isn't really that specific or wildly out there, as much as it is a matter of philosophical viewpoint and use of words.

    Just think of it like this:

    The root is everything and nothing, beginning and end, and so forth.
    You have a plate with veggies.
    As you eat your veggies, you have less veggies on your plate, until you eat the very last one.
    At this point, what do you have? Just a plate, with no veggies. That is to say, once you removed everything that was "something" from
    reality
    the plate
    , you weren't left with the root, you were just left with "no veggies".
    In short, "no veggies" is the conceptual negation mentioned above, and is therefore a matter of "being" distinct from the "true emptiness" which the root would represent.
    But I believe that this is also sort of the point of the text posted, that what we call it isn't really relevant as long as we detach ourselves from our familiar concept of negation and just view it as proper emptiness (sunyata/the root). This is also why Nasu talks about how if you really want to call " " something, call it kara/void, but goes on to say that people called it akashic records/spiral of origin, yet it didn't literally stop being that thing.

    It's just a matter of understanding the different between there "being nothing" and "nothing".
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
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    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kateikyo View Post
    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  5. #9945
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Calling it true/proper emptiness for the nth time won't really help I think

    And no wonder that if you eat all the veggies you're left with no root

  6. #9946
    I guess the actual easiest way is to say: if you have 1, and subtract, you get 0, which is a number, and separate from having "nothing" left because that'd just be weird if you performed a mathematical operation and the result was nothing at all.

    But yeah, you'll get it some day, I have faith in you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mcjon01 View Post
    Ugh cokesakto no no no
    Quote Originally Posted by Neir View Post
    your ability to be wrong about literally everything you post is truly astounding. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but you haven't been right once.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kateikyo View Post
    The gay pics were the most entertaining thing going on in this discussion.

  7. #9947
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six SpoonyViking's Avatar
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    The actual concept is easy to put into words, but to actually visualise is a bit more complex. Then again, if it were so easy, everyone would achieve Enlightenment, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    And no wonder that if you eat all the veggies you're left with no root
    Nice!
    My fanfics:
    The Gift (F/SN): The last duel between Cú Chulainn and Scáthach.
    Passion Acknowledged (F/SN): Shinji X Shirou lemon
    He Was a Good King (F/SN): Was Beowulf a good king?
    A Fairy Tale of Love and Death (F/SN): A meeting between Scáthach and King Hassan.
    Palingenetic Descension (Tsukihime): The origin of the Tohno family's hybrid nature.

  8. #9948
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumei View Post
    I guess the actual easiest way is to say: if you have 1, and subtract, you get 0, which is a number, and separate from having "nothing" left because that'd just be weird if you performed a mathematical operation and the result was nothing at all.

    But yeah, you'll get it some day, I have faith in you.
    So it's nothing but without a name then
    Because that's what I'm getting here.
    Actually doesn't zero also kinda etymologically trace back to Sunya?

  9. #9949
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six asterism42's Avatar
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    I honestly don't understand why you're finding it so hard to grasp this

    'Nothing' is still a something. Sure, it's a something that's defined by having no other things there, but it's still a something. The root is not a something. And likewise, 0 is still a number.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sandstorm77 View Post
    He's just putting the bone of his sword into other people until it explodes and lets out parts of him inside them.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvengerEmiya View Post
    Genderswaps are terrible, but I think I and other people would hate them less if Fate didn't keep ignoring actual heroines throughout history and folklore. Like, why bother turning Francis Drake into a woman when Ching Shih and Grace O'Malley exist?
    Quote Originally Posted by Five_X View Post
    Fate Zero is just Fate Stay Night for people who think Shirou is too girly

  10. #9950
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six madarra's Avatar
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    A E _ O U

    1 2 3 _ 5

    1 2 3 5 _ 11 13

    1 1 2 3 _ 8 13

  11. #9951
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six Zork Knight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by asterism42 View Post
    I honestly don't understand why you're finding it so hard to grasp this

    'Nothing' is still a something. Sure, it's a something that's defined by having no other things there, but it's still a something. The root is not a something. And likewise, 0 is still a number.
    Nothing is the abscence of anything, not "other things"; it is no thing.
    0 is a numerical representation of that, the value of nothing.

    Is this just about having no name?

  12. #9952
    Hill of Nothingness
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    Well mathematically speaking "0" and empty set are two different things… I guess it is better to represent " " as empty set instead of 0 which is still something

  13. #9953
    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Nothing is the abscence of anything, not "other things"; it is no thing.
    0 is a numerical representation of that, the value of nothing.

    Is this just about having no name?
    No. One is, the other is not.
    Quote Originally Posted by Parmenides
    ἡ μὲν ὅπως ἔστιν τε καὶ ὡς οὐκ ἔστι μὴ εἶναι

    ἡ δ' ὡς οὐκ ἔστιν τε καὶ ὡς χρεών ἐστι μὴ εἶναι»
    Because you are too young. Or too stupid. Or both.

  14. #9954
    We Want to Protect that Head OverMaster's Avatar
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    The thread was literally derailed for nothing.

    Kinda fitting too since more often than not 'nothing' is what defines what's going on with Strange/Fake.

  15. #9955
    死徒 Dead Apostle jennajayfeather's Avatar
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    I don’t consider Vol 6 ‘nothing.’ It was traumatic.

    Joking aside I get annoyed when people say nothing happens even though characters are being set up, growing & explored.
    Last edited by jennajayfeather; August 21st, 2020 at 02:57 PM.

  16. #9956
    Cats are awesome RCM9698's Avatar
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    Well, I would be better if it was a bit more focused IMO. Or it is going to take 15 volumes to finish at this rate.

  17. #9957
    鬼 Ogre-like You's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zork Knight View Post
    Nothing is the abscence of anything, not "other things"; it is no thing.
    0 is a numerical representation of that, the value of nothing.

    Is this just about having no name?
    The absence of anything is defined by there being a thing.
    [ ] is something that defies numerical or any representation and it can not be defined in comparison to anything since that means it can be defined.
    Like dull's quote says it is self-emptying so it is not only not-anything, it is not-nothing, and I would said it is not-itself but it can't be a thing since that would define it.
    The main idea is this isn't necessarily a physical thing, but a transcendental idea. That's why magi need to go outside the World to reach the Root.
    Though abandoned, forgotten, and scorned as out-of-date dolls, they continue to carry out their mission, unchanged from the time they were designed.
    Machines do not lose their worth when a newer model appears.
    Their worth (life) ends when humans can no longer bear that purity.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ticeexcenny
    In my opinion you are not right. I am assured. Let's discuss it. Write to me in PM, we will talk.

  18. #9958
    夜・露・死・苦! Kamerad's Avatar
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    Śāriputra, form is not different from emptiness, and emptiness is not different from form. Form itself is emptiness, and emptiness itself is form. Sensation, conception, synthesis, and discrimination are also such as this. Śāriputra, all dharmas are empty: they are neither created nor destroyed, neither defiled nor pure, and they neither increase nor diminish. This is because in emptiness there is no form, sensation, conception, synthesis, or discrimination. There are no eyes, ears, nose, tongue, body, or thoughts. There are no forms, sounds, scents, tastes, sensations, or dharmas. There is no field of vision and there is no realm of thoughts. There is no ignorance nor elimination of ignorance, even up to and including no old age and death, nor elimination of old age and death. There is no suffering, its accumulation, its elimination, or a path. There is no understanding and no attaining.
    :thinkingemoji:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Spinoza
    PROP. XIV. Besides God no substance can be granted or conceived.

    Proof.—As God is a being absolutely infinite, of whom no attribute that expresses the essence of substance can be denied (by Def. vi.), and he necessarily exists (by Prop. xi.); if any substance besides God were granted, it would have to be explained by some attribute of God, and thus two substances with the same attribute would exist, which (by Prop. v.) is absurd; therefore, besides God no substance can be granted, or, consequently, be conceived. If it could be conceived, it would necessarily have to be conceived as existent; but this (by the first part of this proof) is absurd. Therefore, besides God no substance can be granted or conceived. Q.E.D.

    Corollary I.—Clearly, therefore: 1. God is one, that is (by Def. vi.) only one substance can be granted in the universe, and that substance is absolutely infinite, as we have already indicated (in the note to Prop. x.).

    Corollary II.—It follows: 2. That extension and thought are either attributes of God or (by Ax. i.) accidents (affectiones) of the attributes of God.

    PROP. XV. Whatsoever is, is in God, and without God nothing can be, or be conceived.

    Proof.—Besides God, no substance is granted or can be conceived (by Prop. xiv.), that is (by Def. iii.) nothing which is in itself and is conceived through itself. But modes (by Def. v.) can neither be, nor be conceived without substance; wherefore they can only be in the divine nature, and can only through it be conceived. But substances and modes form the sum total of existence (by Ax. i.), therefore, without God nothing can be, or be conceived. Q.E.D.
    :hyperthink:

  19. #9959
    Beats By Matthew ft. Dr. Para Rafflesiac's Avatar
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    So Lino is a Magician.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arashi_Leonhart View Post
    canon finish apo vol 3

  20. #9960
    not available due to uni Wallacia's Avatar
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    i know i will get curificied for contributing to the madness of this exitential tier convo. but just to assure and be faithful to my heart. MENA! GUMINASAI! zero is not " " but rather "?'' since its value is undefined. if you keep dividing numbers by themselves, eventually they will get indefinite and irrational. and while their value will keep decreasing, it will never reach a ''peak'' per say. a common misconception is that ''zero'' represents the peak of devaluation where a number of value cannot be devalued anymore. this is a mistake and a bad one. since it rather represents a value that is out of defining reach rather than the former.

    TDLR: 0 is like ∞, they don't represent what people usually think they do. as for the topic. nothing can't be something in the strict sense but if you loosen it up a bit, since nothing = absence of a thing, while something = the presence of an ''undefined'' thing, thus the ''undefined thing'' of ''something'' can/may be interpreted as ''nothing'' due to its ''undefineness''. so basically schrondinger cat. something may be a thing or nothing, if you think of it as probable rather than certain
    Last edited by Wallacia; August 21st, 2020 at 09:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias View Post
    Arc’s real master is a boy in a school uniform

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