Doctor Who Thread

[SpoonyViking]

Hell, Ten directly killed the Sycorax leader ("No second chances. That's the kind of guy I am"), and Nine DID try to execute the imprisoned Dalek.

[LegalLoliLover]

If I'm remembering Genesis correctly, the moral quandary for the Doctor was whether or not he had the right to commit genocide despite knowing the evils the Daleks would bring (without taking into account the paradox it would create). I recall him having tried to convince Davros to shut down the production line, not necessarily euthanize the mutated Kaleds, by appealing to Davros' better nature, which failed as depicted in the virus speech that'd later be mirrored in The Stolen Earth and Journey's End. That said, it's not like the Doctor's beyond being morally shady. 7 in particular was known for manipulating his enemies into taking their own lives.

The Doctor wants Davros to order the shutdown of the Dalek babies' life support system. I think that slowly suffocating is a worse death than getting blown up.

Such edge, much wow.

I'm not necessarily advocating ruthlessness. I'm saying that if you must kill someone, at least have the gall to do it yourself, rather than hatching some kind of Rube Goldberg-style execution plot.

"No second chances. That's the kind of guy I am"

Unless it's one of the main villains, of course.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

The Doctor wants Davros to order the shutdown of the Dalek babies' life support system. I think that slowly suffocating is a worse death than getting blown up.I'm not necessarily advocating ruthlessness. I'm saying that if you must kill someone, at least have the gall to do it yourself, rather than hatching some kind of Rube Goldberg-style execution plot.

Unless it's one of the main villains, of course.

The Doctor didn't specify suffocating the Dalek babies, the life support systems in question were Davros'. That said, he is aware of what he's forcing Davros to do while threatening his life, and he's not specifying doing it in a "humane" way, so I get your point, I just don't think it's entirely as clean cut in Genesis. I would say that it is much more ill conceived in the most recent season, where 13 does think a suffocation or starvation is better than being shot.

[SpoonyViking]

I'd argue the main issue there is more that not!Trump shot the spider because of ego, not because of pragmatism.

Unless it's one of the main villains, of course.

Well, sure - can't risk alienating long-time fans, after all!
But yeah, the series can be (and often is) less than consistent on the subject, sadly.

[SpoonyViking]

On the specific subject of "Genesis", I agree that the whole debate was treated in much too shallow a manner, but them's the breaks.

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Of course, not-Trump is thoroughly unlikeable and what he did doesn't come across as a positive thing at all, but the Doctor's handling of the situation left a lot to be desired as well despite being portrayed as the correct thing. It could've been neat if the Doctor stopped him from shooting, then he protests and the Doctor concedes that she understands, but that she cannot let it happen since there has to be a way to help save the creature. The way Genesis handles the dilemma isn't exactly groundbreaking or well developed, but it is an early example of the Doctor noting that things are not always so simple. Were it not for the fact that the story had to follow its structure of six 24-minute episodes, I think that there could've been more emphasis put on giving that thread a satisfying conclusion rather than just kinda paying lip service to it then moving on. It's something that I think RTD and Moffat were pretty good at doing in episodes like Midnight and The Beast Below, and it's something that I think Chibnall stumbles with despite bringing up morality so often. In Torchwood and, to a lesser extent, Broadchurch, he was able to put to screen characters with challenging ideas and I hope that he can channel that back into the next season.

[Skull]

Let's not forget that the Doctor's solution to the spider problem at large was to lock them all in a panic room where they presumably suffocated/starved.

Mr.Big did nothing wrong. :/

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Yeah, the Doctor could've herded them to the Zero Room or some other containment within the TARDIS and taken them to an uninhabited planet.

[SpoonyViking]

Eh, Beast Below was terrible. Suddenly, everything is hunky-dory because, you see, the slaves - sorry, the space whale had been happy to help all along, never mind the centuries of slavery - I mean, of the space whale being tortured, or the fact that space!UK was a police state who sacrificed its undesirables!

[Toa of Gallifrey]

Yeah, the resolution is pretty unsatisfactory, but I am very keen on the Doctor's scenes. For me it's kinda like Kill the Moon, where I find the final part of the episode near unwatchable, but the buildup and stakes were great.

[Aozaki-desu]

It's the best British series ever.

not since s11!

[Skull]

But will it be bigger on the inside?



Tempted to check one out...

[LegalLoliLover]

The only good Daleks are the one who never leave Skaro.

[Skull]

Wow, somehow Chibnall managed to do what Moffat couldn't in all his seven years...in just one episode - completely destroy the canon of the show beyond any recognition.

[Mattias]

I haven't touched the new season yet, how does it stack up compared to other new Who?

[Skull]

Spare yourself the torture.

Go watch better Sci-Fi.

[Mattias]

But I need to know. And so far I've yet to find Farscape on Netflix.

[SpoonyViking]

Farscape is on Prime, if you have it.
That said, the new season is pretty good so far (I'm at "Fugitive of the Judoon"), though I say this as someone who liked Whittaker's first season. Unfortunately, I had the big end-of-season twist spoiled for me... Anyway, the twist itself seems fine, and it seems to be based off somewhat common fan speculation, some of which was actually going to be used in the show proper in the 80's before cancellation (there were hints that the Doctor had somehow taken part in the founding of Time Lord society with Omega and Rassilon during McCoy's run, for instance).

[Skull]

Anyway, the twist itself seems fine [...]

Taken in a vacuum, sure it sounds good on paper. But the problem is that DW is a show with 50+ years of history and lore, thus when you flip the goddamn table as this episode did, the proverbial porcelain ends up smashing into pieces and we're left with one hundred and eight plot holes. Arguably even worse is the fact that this revelation retroactively destroys drama and tension from previous episodes because established "facts" that they created entire narratives around are now non-existent thanks to this episode.

*sigh*
Y'know, the thing that truly infuriates me is that Chibnal thought he was so clever by including a reference to "The Brain of Morbius" in this episode...but he was too busy inhaling his own farts that he didn't seem to notice that it directly contradicts the entire plot of this episode. To quoth Star Trek: Picard - "Sheer F****** Hubris..."