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Thread: Avatar: The Last Airbender/The Legend of Korra discussion thread

  1. #1801
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six mangafreak7793's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miiki View Post
    gotta give those tumblrettes credit for seeing that pairing coming, 'cuss i didn't .
    Me neither, Just watched it a little while ago and talked about it with a friend.

    He said there was subtext.

    I asked him when.

    Only mention hand holding and one time when one complimented the other in a dress, also sending letters.

    I may be dense as a brick but I didn't see it coming at all, and was left confused by it.

    Also said friend mention that the one of the creators may release art or a comic on it.


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  2. #1802
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Konietzko already has been.

    large



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  3. #1803
    I'm bored Polly's Avatar
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    Korrasami was heavily censored by Nickelodeon, yes, but there were hints. I have little doubt that the pairing wouldn't be nearly as questioned if Asami were a guy.
    My attempts at being a (fanfic) writer:

    Eclipse - a Saber Alter oneshot
    Requiem for a Race - Altrouge and Ortenrosse hunt the TAs ( 1/3 chapters, discontinued )
    Memories of a King - a 'Saber Origins' story ( 8/? chapters, discontiuned )
    A Small Warmth - a post UBW-Good oneshot, Saber/Rin
    Devil's Thrill - Narbareck hunts down a DAA Blackmore ( 10/10 chapters, finished )
    Boundary of Loneliness - Ryougi Shiki/Alphard Al-Shua oneshot. Lemon-flavoured

  4. #1804
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    No, not really.

    I don't have complaints that they hooked up, just there weren't strong indications that their closer relationship was ending up in "I am in lesbians with you".

    Did the show creators even release a statement that this was planned all along?

  5. #1805
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Was Korrasami “endgame,” meaning, did we plan it from the start of the series? No, but nothing other than Korra’s spiritual arc was. Asami was a duplicitous spy when Mike and I first conceived her character. Then we liked her too much so we reworked the story to keep her in the dark regarding her father’s villainous activities. Varrick and Zhu Li weren’t originally planned to end up as a couple either, but that’s where we took the story/where the story took us. That’s how writing works the vast majority of the time. You give these characters life and then they tell you what they want to do.

    I have bragging rights as the first Korrasami shipper (I win!). As we wrote Book 1, before the audience had ever laid eyes on Korra and Asami, it was an idea I would kick around the writers’ room. At first we didn’t give it much weight, not because we think same-sex relationships are a joke, but because we never assumed it was something we would ever get away with depicting on an animated show for a kids network in this day and age, or at least in 2010.

    Makorra was only “endgame” as far as the end of Book 1. Once we got into Book 2 we knew we were going to have them break up, and we never planned on getting them back together. Sorry, friends. I like Mako too, and I am sure he will be just fine in the romance department. He grew up and learned about himself through his relationships with Asami and Korra, and he’s a better person for it, and he’ll be a better partner for whomever he ends up with.

    Once Mako and Korra were through, we focused on developing Korra and Asami’s relationship. Originally, it was primarily intended to be a strong friendship. Frankly, we wanted to set most of the romance business aside for the last two seasons. Personally, at that point I didn’t want Korra to have to end up with someone at the end of series. We obviously did it in Avatar, but even that felt a bit forced to me. I’m usually rolling my eyes when that happens in virtually every action film, “Here we go again…” It was probably around that time that I came across this quote from Hayao Miyazaki:

    “I’ve become skeptical of the unwritten rule that just because a boy and girl appear in the same feature, a romance must ensue. Rather, I want to portray a slightly different relationship, one where the two mutually inspire each other to live - if I’m able to, then perhaps I’ll be closer to portraying a true expression of love.”

    I agree with him wholeheartedly, especially since the majority of the examples in media portray a female character that is little more than a trophy to be won by the male lead for his derring-do. So Mako and Korra break the typical pattern and end up respecting, admiring, and inspiring each other. That is a resolution I am proud of.

    However, I think there needs to be a counterpart to Miyazaki’s sentiment: Just because two characters of the same sex appear in the same story, it should not preclude the possibility of a romance between them. No, not everyone is queer, but the other side of that coin is that not everyone is straight. The more Korra and Asami’s relationship progressed, the more the idea of a romance between them organically blossomed for us. However, we still operated under this notion, another “unwritten rule,” that we would not be allowed to depict that in our show. So we alluded to it throughout the second half of the series, working in the idea that their trajectory could be heading towards a romance.

    But as we got close to finishing the finale, the thought struck me: How do I know we can’t openly depict that? No one ever explicitly said so. It was just another assumption based on a paradigm that marginalizes non-heterosexual people. If we want to see that paradigm evolve, we need to take a stand against it. And I didn’t want to look back in 20 years and think, “Man, we could have fought harder for that.” Mike and I talked it over and decided it was important to be unambiguous about the intended relationship.

    We approached the network and while they were supportive there was a limit to how far we could go with it, as just about every article I read accurately deduced. It was originally written in the script over a year ago that Korra and Asami held hands as they walked into the spirit portal. We went back and forth on it in the storyboards, but later in the retake process I staged a revision where they turned towards each other, clasping both hands in a reverential manner, in a direct reference to Varrick and Zhu Li’s nuptial pose from a few minutes prior. We asked Jeremy Zuckerman to make the music tender and romantic, and he fulfilled the assignment with a sublime score. I think the entire last two-minute sequence with Korra and Asami turned out beautiful, and again, it is a resolution of which I am very proud. I love how their relationship arc took its time, through kindness and caring. If it seems out of the blue to you, I think a second viewing of the last two seasons would show that perhaps you were looking at it only through a hetero lens.

    Was it a slam-dunk victory for queer representation? I think it falls short of that, but hopefully it is a somewhat significant inching forward. It has been encouraging how well the media and the bulk of the fans have embraced it. Sadly and unsurprisingly, there are also plenty of people who have lashed out with homophobic vitriol and nonsense. It has been my experience that by and large this kind of mindset is a result of a lack of exposure to people whose lives and struggles are different from one’s own, and due to a deficiency in empathy––the latter being a key theme in Book 4. (Despite what you might have heard, bisexual people are real!) I have held plenty of stupid notions throughout my life that were planted there in any number of ways, or even grown out of my own ignorance and flawed personality. Yet through getting to know people from all walks of life, listening to the stories of their experiences, and employing some empathy to try to imagine what it might be like to walk in their shoes, I have been able to shed many hurtful mindsets. I still have a long way to go, and I still have a lot to learn. It is a humbling process and hard work, but nothing on the scale of what anyone who has been marginalized has experienced. It is a worthwhile, lifelong endeavor to try to understand where people are coming from.

    There is the inevitable reaction, “Mike and Bryan just caved in to the fans.” Well, which fans? There were plenty of Makorra shippers out there, so if we had gone back on our decision and gotten those characters back together, would that have meant we caved in to those fans instead? Either direction we went, there would inevitably be a faction that was elated and another that was devastated. Trust me, I remember Kataang vs. Zutara. But one of those directions is going to be the one that feels right to us, and Mike and I have always made both Avatar and Korra for us, first and foremost. We are lucky that so many other people around the world connect with these series as well. Tahno playing trombone––now that was us caving in to the fans!

    But this particular decision wasn’t only done for us. We did it for all our queer friends, family, and colleagues. It is long overdue that our media (including children’s media) stops treating non-heterosexual people as nonexistent, or as something merely to be mocked. I’m only sorry it took us so long to have this kind of representation in one of our stories.

    I’ll wrap this up with some incredible words that Mike and I received in a message from a former Korra crew member. He is a deeply religious person who devotes much of his time and energy not only to his faith, but also to helping young people. He and I may have starkly different belief systems, but it is heartwarming and encouraging that on this issue we are aligned in a positive, progressive direction:

    “I’ve read enough reviews to get a sense of how it affected people. One very well-written article in Vanity Fair called it subversive (in a good way, of course)… I would say a better word might be “healing.” I think your finale was healing for a lot of people who feel outside or on the fringes, or that their love and their journey is somehow less real or valuable than someone else’s… That it’s somehow less valid. I know quite a few people in that position, who have a lifetime of that on their shoulders, and in one episode of television you both relieved and validated them. That’s healing in my book.”
    Yes. Ish. Depending on how far you mean all along.
    Last edited by Seika; March 17th, 2015 at 04:02 PM.
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  6. #1806
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six black1blade's Avatar
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    Korra is shit last airbender is good. Simples.

  7. #1807
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six
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    Ah, thanks. That was more or less in line with what I thought was the rationale.

  8. #1808
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    Third season was hella rad, eat a bag of nails mate.

  9. #1809
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Third season badly needed to lose Kai, but was otherwise fantastic.
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  10. #1810
    地獄待ち Spinach's Avatar
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    Nothing can be perfect after all.

  11. #1811
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six mangafreak7793's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polly View Post
    Korrasami was heavily censored by Nickelodeon, yes, but there were hints. I have little doubt that the pairing wouldn't be nearly as questioned if Asami were a guy.
    I keep getting that but am still at a loss. Even if Asami was a guy though I think I might have been dense.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I like the third season, favorite of the series but the fourth season kind of annoyed me.

    It isn't that last scene, that had me more confused then anything but the main antagonist was got me mad.


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  12. #1812
    分かろうとするな、感じれ Mcjon01's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangafreak7793 View Post
    hand holding
    They're putting that kind of borderline hardcore pornography in children's cartoons now? Jesus, America really is going to shit.

  13. #1813
    Κυρία Ἐλέησον Seika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mangafreak7793 View Post
    I keep getting that but am still at a loss. Even if Asami was a guy though I think I might have been dense.
    I don't deny that it was more subtle than any of the other relationships the show had built up (and I was very prepared for it to just be a close friendship - that they ran with it in the ending caught me entirely off-guard) but I think there was enough there that if it had been a heterosexual mix, the vast majority of the fanbase would have picked up on it. Korra only replying to Asami's letter, and opening up to her; the duck-and-flush when Asami complimented her on her hair; various elements of the S3 endgame, including Asami being the one picked to look after Korra. Those are the bits I remember off-hand.
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  14. #1814
    闇色の六王権 The Dark Six mangafreak7793's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seika View Post
    I don't deny that it was more subtle than any of the other relationships the show had built up (and I was very prepared for it to just be a close friendship - that they ran with it in the ending caught me entirely off-guard) but I think there was enough there that if it had been a heterosexual mix, the vast majority of the fanbase would have picked up on it. Korra only replying to Asami's letter, and opening up to her; the duck-and-flush when Asami complimented her on her hair; various elements of the S3 endgame, including Asami being the one picked to look after Korra. Those are the bits I remember off-hand.

    I thought it was a close friendship by the end, though I think the big bad of season four had most of my rage. By the time I saw the last scene it left me with a eyebrow quirked 'Huh? Well that was weird.', I kind of expected Korra not to end up with Mako but become her own woman with strong allies but regardless I found the ending of S4 to be kind of weak.

    I really love the end of S3 however which I thought was best in the series.

    also

    I think there was enough there that if it had been a heterosexual mix, the vast majority of the fanbase would have picked up on it.
    This phrase kind of bothers me but I guess I can understand the meaning behind it, since Shippers got to Ship.


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